Amelia Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 On our way to Thanksgiving holidays with our favorite granddaughter and her family. Airspeed’s alive. Gear up. Flaps up. Climbing to 6000. IFR plan activated. Level off. Hm. Slowwwww. Oh. Why’s the gear down? Gear up again? Not happening. Push circuit breaker and try again? Nope. So it was a leisurely flight to GAI , pulling power to keep the temps down. So, a golf cart full of mechanics met me.. promised to put the plane on jacks and see what can be done. A short conversation with my fine go-to-guy back home resulted in the prediction of a shot gear motor, can’t get one on short notice, bring it on home this weekend, and we’ll get to it next week. So, the mechanic at GAI will call me in the morning, presumably to say she can’t fix it, and we will go home at C172 speeds. Oof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 Did you check the emergency gear handle? Did the mechanic check the limit switches? I’d try some cheaper parts first if you could. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynimmo Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 I Don't think the motor is very expensive or hard to change....it is something like a windshield wiper motor as I remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 How many days does MS get to... Determine what is wrong identify the part(s) that need to be OH’d or replaced Get part(s) Delivered to where? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 See if any of these parts looks familiar... #64 is a PP guess at what and where the gear motor may look like... and the list of parts has a motor name associated with... But I Don’t know the Long body very well... See if the doc is around... @M20Doc Canadian Thanksgiving May have occurred a month ago... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 I don’t know of any reports of Long Body gear motors working one day, and not working the next... Plenty of reports lately of airspeed switches not working... It may make some sense to take your most spry member of the cockpit team to search for the gold anodized looking air switch behind the instrument panel to see what may have fallen off... hose or wire.... Of course... you already tested the by-pass button to allow for emergency gear retraction, right? Things to consider looking at with the mechanic while the plane is up on jacks... Gear Switch by-pass button airspeed switch motor limit switches, up and down... Good luck, Mimi... MS is with you... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 For a pic... search for airspeed safety switch airspeed switch https://mooneyspace.com/search/?&q="Airspeed switch"&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q="Airspeed safety switch"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20S Driver Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 Did a circuit breaker go off? If yes, which one? actuator CB or relay CB? M20S troubleshooting of LG_electrical.pptx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 19 hours ago, MIm20c said: Did you check the emergency gear handle? Did the mechanic check the limit switches? I’d try some cheaper parts first if you could. Amelia, Yes usually someone in the back seat has bumped the latch on the emergency gear handle causing the exact symptoms you mention. Ask me how I know. (In 1999 I brought a friend from San Antonio up to Fort Worth in my '96 M20M and dropped him off. My back seat passenger came up front for the flight to San Antonio. After take-off I pulled the gear switch up and after reaching cruise couldn't figure out why we were so slow. I had to fly back with the gear down. I was expecting a huge repair bill. I took it in the next day to Dennis Bernhard at Lone Star Mooney in San Antonio. As I was explaining it to him he got a big smile on his face as he said that this is going to be expensive and your airplane could be down for weeks. He walked out to N9153Z reached down and latched the emergency gear cover and said "No Charge" - some of the best words I have ever heard at a Mooney Service Center.) 4 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney217RN Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Amelia, Yes usually someone in the back seat has bumped the latch on the emergency gear handle causing the exact symptoms you mention. Ask me how I know. I had the exact thing occur in my Ovation. I check that latch before departure as part of my checklist sequence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer338 Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 I am wondering, is an S model airworthy when the landing gear will not retract? It occurs to me that a ferry permit might be required for the return flight. I hope the problem turns out to be both simple and inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted November 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 (edited) Well, thank you all!! My face is red, and my problem is solved. Yes, I do, in fact have a checklist. I even used it, seems to me. But somehow, somewhen, grabbed a bag out of the back seat, and it never dawned on me to check on that switch. Dang.But at least I don’t have to send for a new motor. Now I know a new thing!! So, thank you all very, very much. (Now MImi slinks away in mortification.) Edited November 27, 2019 by Amelia 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 At least you learned something, AND fixed your plane @Amelia! Nothing wrong with a two-fer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 18 hours ago, carusoam said: How many days does MS get to... Determine what is wrong identify the part(s) that need to be OH’d or replaced Get part(s) Delivered to where? Less than one! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Amelia said: Well, thank you all!! My face is red, and my problem is solved. Yes, I do, in fact have a checklist. I even used it, seems to me. But somehow, somewhen, grabbed a bag out of the back seat, and it never dawned on me to check on that switch. Dang.But at least I don’t have to send for a new motor. Now I know a new thing!! So, thank you all very, very much. (Now MImi slinks away in mortification.) No need for red face...that unlatched gear handle is a trap that has gotten a few of us! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer338 Posted November 27, 2019 Report Share Posted November 27, 2019 This thread may save one of us from a similar problem. I am happy for a simple and inexpensive outcome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibra Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 18 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Yes usually someone in the back seat has bumped the latch on the emergency gear handle causing the exact symptoms you mention. Ask me how I know. I discovered that as well the same way as Amelia, luckily issue was solved in the air after 2h but I was just lagging behind my plans I was trying to push to far destination with gear down, figured out half-way that range/fuel burn was not on my side, so decide to divert to a place mid way By then I had chance to open/read the whole book*, I figure out issue and fix it, so went back to original destination but could not make it and had to divert a second time *Carried a short simplified checklist, it did not have all emergency/trouble shooting procedures, that is when you really need it or just open POH/AFM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Is there a switch interlock on the emergency gear latch? It is on my takeoff checklist, right after takeoff trim setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 On 11/26/2019 at 5:52 PM, larrynimmo said: I Don't think the motor is very expensive or hard to change....it is something like a windshield wiper motor as I remember Around $800 to have overhauled. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykrawler Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Checking the Emergency Gear Extension Lever is in the POH emergency procedures under FAILURE OF LANDING GEAR TO RETRACT. We should all re-read the entire POH once a year lest we forget important stuff. That's basically what recurrent training is for type ratings. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, skykrawler said: Checking the Emergency Gear Extension Lever is in the POH emergency procedures under FAILURE OF LANDING GEAR TO RETRACT. We should all re-read the entire POH once a year lest we forget important stuff. That's basically what recurrent training is for type ratings. Ah! Reading the manual! The entire POH. Not a Mooney. I'm an instructor with a flying club with a DA40 G1000. The standardized club checklist had a few items that were incorrect. I pointed them out to another instructor. He: No. You are wrong. They are correct. Read the POH! Me: Read the right sections of the POH. The DA40 G1000 model uses the base DA40 manual and adds supplements for the differences in the G1000 model. He was looking only at the base, not the whole POH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted November 28, 2019 Report Share Posted November 28, 2019 Johnson bar for the win! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 17 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: Ah! Reading the manual! The entire POH. Not a Mooney. I'm an instructor with a flying club with a DA40 G1000. The standardized club checklist had a few items that were incorrect. I pointed them out to another instructor. He: No. You are wrong. They are correct. Read the POH! Me: Read the right sections of the POH. The DA40 G1000 model uses the base DA40 manual and adds supplements for the differences in the G1000 model. He was looking only at the base, not the whole POH. That plane should have an AFM onboard that includes the equipment installed for that serial number airframe. The poh is just for general purpose reference. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said: That plane should have an AFM onboard that includes the equipment installed for that serial number airframe. The poh is just for general purpose reference. -Robert A POH is a serial number referenced document. A "POH" is a GAMA-standardized format (GAMA Specification No 1) created in the mid-1970s for an aircraft manual which contains the AFM. You are perhaps thinking of a "PIM," which is a generalized POH. Yes, people use the term POH to mean both POH and PIM, but I was referring to the official, airframe-specific document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibra Posted November 29, 2019 Report Share Posted November 29, 2019 3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said: That plane should have an AFM onboard that includes the equipment installed for that serial number airframe. The poh is just for general purpose reference. -Robert Yes, usually the case for avionics installations or additional approved kit but for a landing gear? Landing gear troubleshooting issue has to be in the POH (never heard of a gear installation suplement in the AFM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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