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Rebuilding Reman or New for a TSIO-550g


Schllc

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Hi all,

Thought i would lean on the experience of the group here again.  

i am thinking about an engine upgrade.  i wrote to Continental for a quote for a factory reman and they referred me to AirPower who just sent me a quote for $86k for a reman and $107 for a factory new engine.

is this appropriate or are there other options?  I personally don't really have a problem with a field rebuild, and plan to fly it for at least a few years after, if not more.

Lastly, is there any real benefit or performance to the Victor engines?  They don't seem to be any more than the factory ones but the options for balancing, stress relieving, the matched machining, and the corrosion resistance for where i live.

Thoughts?

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7 hours ago, Schllc said:

Hi all,

Thought i would lean on the experience of the group here again.  

i am thinking about an engine upgrade.  i wrote to Continental for a quote for a factory reman and they referred me to AirPower who just sent me a quote for $86k for a reman and $107 for a factory new engine.

is this appropriate or are there other options?  I personally don't really have a problem with a field rebuild, and plan to fly it for at least a few years after, if not more.

Lastly, is there any real benefit or performance to the Victor engines?  They don't seem to be any more than the factory ones but the options for balancing, stress relieving, the matched machining, and the corrosion resistance for where i live.

Thoughts?

 RE: N113TN . . . .With 1300 hours on that engine (800 on the cylinders) and a complete teardown after the prop strike you could fly it awhile and see how it's doing. It might need new cylinders soon, but that might get you to TBO.or, 

 

If you start putting a new engine, new interior, new paint and some avionics into a 10 year old airframe you may have in it much more than it's worth. Then it's time to think about making a few dollars on it and carefully comparing  it to what one of these could really be bought for:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/166735223/2015-mooney-acclaim-type-s

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/109353985/2016-mooney-acclaim-type-s

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In your position with the PO probably helping some with the cost I’d probably just send the engine to jewel (or similar) and have it iran’d. The turbos/wastegate/rings/etc were replaced about 350 hrs ago and have a lot of life left imo. Going with a factory reman would be a slight waste but more likely to be trouble free down the road. Victor will add some value but if you’re selling it soonish <5 years I don’t feel the value is there. 

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I agree with Lance, but if you really want to go through the engine again, I'd start with Powermasters in Tulsa. Their engines routinely run to TBO without the normal Continental factory valve issues from everything I've read on Beechtalk. I believe they'll balance anything and do any boutique work you desire. Some experienced owners even send factory-new Continental engines too get the valves fixed before they even install them...

FWIW, I did a field overhaul on my Lycoming just to get precision balancing, flow matched cylinders and lifters, etc. I'm still very happy with my decision versus a factory option. Downtime of course is the trade off.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

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I will fly it a while as is, that’s not really an option as the aviation world doesn’t move fast when it comes to engines. 
im sure it runs well, it comes down to confidence. 
If I flew a plane for the last 1000 hours till tbo, and was happy, I’d have no problem going beyond tbo because of confidence. 
buying an engine with two prop strikes, and not really knowing how it was flown by previous owners makes that confidence a little hard to obtain. 
I don’t want to spend money like I have it to waste,  because I don’t, but I also don’t want to have a nagging fear that keeps me from hopping in my plane any time I want. 
maybe I fly 10-20 hours and it comes.
Won’t really know that until it happens, expect the best and prepare for the worst. 
 

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If it were me and I knew the engine had been IRAN'd recently and was running fine, I'd fly it and stay close to it for the first 50-75 hours until you felt confident in it(25 hour oil changes, oil analysis,  boroscope and engine data). If the two prop strikes have been repaired properly and all the internals checked good at that time I would see no urgent reason to do anything - specifically if it were running fine and many parts were replaced (bearings, seals, etc). It theoretically is a low-mid-time engine at this point. 

If things were not, the equation becomes more complicated because if you did a field overhaul you would want to be sure you would have the confidence - an overhaul will retain your case, crank, etc. 

I just had my IO550G overhauled at Poplar Grove with new nickel cylinders and am happy so far (40 hours in) - for me the  Poplar Grove overhaul and not purchasing from the factory met my standards and goals and was more cost effective and it mine was a first run engine, so I opted to keep "my" engine. 

Congratulations and best of luck with the plane. I happen to love the paint scheme. One of the best looking machines I have seen (although I know you are painting it).  

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The cool thing about Continental remanufactured engines...

  • The zero time in the log book...
  • Their pricing is pretty easy to get... used to be available on their website. Might still be there.
  • On the shelf, ready to go... delivered in under a month...

I went with the IO550(N) mostly because it was a few pounds lighter than the (G)... was delivered in about two weeks... the prop I needed was a few months after that... :)

I wanted the lightness, to counterbalance the slightly heavier TopProp...

There are some field reports regarding cracked cylinder heads of the (N)... probably from Cirrus customers...

 

We have two types of Mooney pilots in the TC/TN’d Long Bodies... both Bravo and Acclaim...

Some use it like it needs to last forever... LOP is the way to go... it’s 10kias slower than ROP, but the cylinders can go to TBO...

Others use it as a business machine... There is a cost to go fast, a set of cylinders at the halfway point isn’t that bad...

Yes, there are reports of needing cylinders every 800hrs...   you would need to know who the resource is for that...

It is perfectly normal to fly the Acclaim in fire-breathing dragon mode... the cost is sets of cylinders...

It is quite normal to fly the Acclaim in a kinder-gentler dragon mode... cylinder care requires monitoring CHTs...

It doesn’t take being a super-human pilot to operate either way...

It does require knowing your engine monitor to make sure your temps are where you want them to be...

There is nothing cooler than a 310hp Acclaim... Joe Z liked to write about his often... around here...

I so wanted to put the TN’d IO550 on my O, for a few more AMUs... but... there is a small paperwork requirement that I couldn't overcome...  An STC to put the Acclaim’s power plant on the M20R...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

best regards,

-a-

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Why not an A, B, D, E, or J?

TSIO-550-A

360 hp (268 kW) at 2600 rpm, dry weight 442 lb (200 kg) plus two turbochargers of 28.2 lb (12.8 kg) each.

TSIO-550-B
350 hp (261 kW) at 2700 rpm, dry weight 442 lb (200 kg) plus two turbochargers of 28.2 lb (12.8 kg) each. Similar to the TSIO-550-A except with a 12 quart sump, sonic venturii removed and the two stage fuel pump replaced by a single stage fuel pump.[2]
TSIO-550-E
350 hp (261 kW) at 2700 rpm, dry weight 442 lb (200 kg) plus two turbochargers of 28.2 lb (12.8 kg) each. Similar to TSIO-550-C with the oil sump and maximum continuous power rating of the TSIO-550-B.

Turbocharged & FADEC models[edit

TSIOF-550-D
350 hp (261 kW) at 2600 rpm, dry weight 558 lb (253 kg) plus two turbochargers of 35.2 lb (16.0 kg) each. Similar to the TSIOF-550-J except the exhaust system and low voltage harness.
TSIOF-550-J
350 hp (261 kW) at 2600 rpm, dry weight 558 lb (253 kg) plus two turbochargers of 35.2 lb (16.0 kg) each. Similar to the TSIO-550-E except for FADEC fuel injection and ignition control, turbochargers, tapered cylinder barrel fins, oil sump and capacity, maximum continuous speed and manifold pressure rating.
 
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Limited by the STC paperwork available to your plane...

The IO550(A)... 300hp can be found on the nose of Mooney Missiles...

Rocket Engineering wrote the STCs for the IO550s used by Mooney.  Talking STCs only...   I’m sure Mooney did their own engineering documents for the Eagle, Ovation, and Acclaim when they first got built...
 

When going to 310hp...  another STC by Rocket engineering was created.. then Somewhere along the way, Mooney bought the STCs from Rocket...

Follow the paper trail...

If you have the desire to put one of those other engine options on your plane... The engineering costs aren’t horrible... just extensive...

When sold piecemeal to other Mooney owners... STCs can be as low as 5amu provided they get spread out amongs enough owners...

Look up Rocket Engineering on the inter webs... they have a site, with tech details...

PP thoughts only, not a paperwork expert...

Best regards,

-a-

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Why are things always described in amu’s?

I'm not sure what these are, and why not just refer to things in actual dollars?

I'm also curious what you mean by “extensive”. Isn’t that just an analog for expensive, or do you mean it takes years but doesn’t cost a lot?

The question is somewhat rhetorical, I imagine if it was possible/practical someone would have already done it. 

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sch...


We are in a public arena where discussing actual dollar values can be held against us too easily... by people that think flying isn’t needed... like our finance administrators... :)

Its a bit of a pain, but the going to a private arena idea hasn’t taken off...

For the most part, few exact dollar sums are ever discussed publicly anyway... +/- an amu... close enough...

After a while you will recognize a few coded phrases often used around here...

Best regards,

-a-

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2 hours ago, carusoam said:

There is nothing cooler than a 310hp Acclaim

Amen, brother! shorter t/o, 12-1500 fpm climb into the flight level.  What's not to like? Best 4 AMU's I've ever spent.

@Schllc When looking at o/h or reman, be very aware of what's included.  The CMI reman includes turbo's, exhaust, and all the other accessories.  field overhaul quotes probably will not.  It appears to me that CMI has the better offering.

And if the engine isn't making metal or consuming oil, I'd run it day/vfr for a bit and then call it good. YMMV

The 310HP stc is owned by bob minnis, who is a very decent guy.  He worked with the late Kevin Surrell, who I counted as a  good friend and miss very much, to develop these STC's.  Mooney elected to buy the 310 Ovation STC but waved off on the Acclaim version for reasons unknown.

-dan

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