Oxygen refill - Tank size and filler adaptor help

[jrwilson]

I want to get a refill system for my built-in oxygen.  I am looking into leasing a 200 cubic foot tank with 2200 psi.  How many refills would I get with the single tank? 

Would this work for filling my airplane tank?  http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ao-fa-54-72-g.html     I think I would also need to get a Scott adapter?

Thanks in advance!

[Marauder]

I want to get a refill system for my built-in oxygen.  I am looking into leasing a 200 cubic foot tank with 2200 psi.  How many refills would I get with the single tank? 
Would this work for filling my airplane tank?  http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ao-fa-54-72-g.html     I think I would also need to get a Scott adapter?
Thanks in advance!

You will get one complete fill with the large tank and each subsequent fill will be less than the max cylinder pressure. I.E. 2200 the first time, 2000 on fill 2, 1700 on 3, etc. How many partial fills you will get depends on how large the O2 cylinder you are filling.

The trans fill adapter you are showing looks like it will attach to CGA 540 on both sides. Again, depends on what kind of cylinder you are filling. Mine are 540s but the other guys who are in the tank farm with me have a much smaller filling port and one guy has a medical tank. Show us what you are filling.




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[jrwilson]

It's a built in tank in the tail and I don't have a picture of it. 

[larryb]

You need this to connect to the fill port.

https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/ta-916-s-transfiller-adapter/

Assuming a 200 cu-ft supply tank and 115 cu-ft airplane tank, you will not even get one full fill from a 2200 psi supply tank. Consider the formula:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 2200 = 1396 psi.

and next time:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 1396 = 886 psi.

What you really want is a cascade system of 3 tanks. Consider the weight of a tank also. I use 125 cu-ft tanks because I can move them and lift them by myself. I doubt I can lift a 200 cu-ft tank. 

Also consider the Mountain High O2D2 system. I have one connected to my built in tank, and it will literally give me a year of flying on a single fill. So maybe if you have that you don't need your own transfill system.

Larry

[DonMuncy]

As others have said, you never get even one complete fill. However, you get several partial fills, depending on the size tank you are filling, and depending on how full you "must have it". How much you must have depends on how many people are on board, how high you fly, and your on board system (The "on demand" systems are a lot more efficient than the "flow full time" ones.) On my K model, I will refill my big tank when it can no longer put more than about 1200 or 1400 psi. My plane's tank is 115 cu ft (I think), and I get about 3 fills between replenishing the big tank. That is based on two people, 14 -17,000 and Aerox's "Oxy saver cannulas.  At about $25 to $30 to fill your big tank, that is still pretty cheap. If you can come up with another big tank, you can do substantially better with a cascade system.

Yes, the Chief system will work except for the matching fitting for your tank. Probably what you are calling a Scott adaptor. Aerox has the fitting, but make sure what the right one is.

[jrwilson]

45 minutes ago, larryb said:

You need this to connect to the fill port.

https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/ta-916-s-transfiller-adapter/

Assuming a 200 cu-ft supply tank and 115 cu-ft airplane tank, you will not even get one full fill from a 2200 psi supply tank. Consider the formula:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 2200 = 1396 psi.

and next time:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 1396 = 886 psi.

What you really want is a cascade system of 3 tanks. Consider the weight of a tank also. I use 125 cu-ft tanks because I can move them and lift them by myself. I doubt I can lift a 200 cu-ft tank. 

Also consider the Mountain High O2D2 system. I have one connected to my built in tank, and it will literally give me a year of flying on a single fill. So maybe if you have that you don't need your own transfill system.

Larry

thank you

[Austintatious]

56 minutes ago, larryb said:

You need this to connect to the fill port.

https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/ta-916-s-transfiller-adapter/

Assuming a 200 cu-ft supply tank and 115 cu-ft airplane tank, you will not even get one full fill from a 2200 psi supply tank. Consider the formula:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 2200 = 1396 psi.

and next time:

(200 / (200 + 115) ) * 1396 = 886 psi.

What you really want is a cascade system of 3 tanks. Consider the weight of a tank also. I use 125 cu-ft tanks because I can move them and lift them by myself. I doubt I can lift a 200 cu-ft tank. 

Also consider the Mountain High O2D2 system. I have one connected to my built in tank, and it will literally give me a year of flying on a single fill. So maybe if you have that you don't need your own transfill system.

Larry

Do you happen to have any pictures on how you are running yoru setup?  I am thinking of going to something like this but I am not sure were I would put everything.

 

I would love to install one of their systems with the in panel control unit... says it is for experimental only.  Stupid.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Austintatious

[kortopates]

Do you happen to have any pictures on how you are running yoru setup?  I am thinking of going to something like this but I am not sure were I would put everything.
 
I would love to install one of their systems with the in panel control unit... says it is for experimental only.  Stupid.

Here are a couple 300 cuft cylinders on a cart - plus the adapter from the CGA540 to the planes O2 port. I started with lighter 200 or 220? But didn't feel I got that many refills. Rather than going to a third tank I went to larger T size which are also 2400 psi but it usually come fresh at 2600 psi
This is working out much better and they help keep me in shape



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[Austintatious]

1 minute ago, kortopates said:

Here are a couple 300 cuft cylinders on a cart - plus the adapter from the CGA540 to the planes O2 port. I started with lighter 200 or 220? But didn't feel I got that many refills. Rather than going to a third tank I went to larger T size which are also 2400 psi but it usually come fresh at 2600 psi
This is working out much better and they help keep me in shape



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Thank you but I was wondering about the Mountain high units in the cockpit, not the refill station.

[kortopates]

Thank you but I was wondering about the Mountain high units in the cockpit, not the refill station.

Oops, that I can't help you with. But check out the precise flight version which doesn't rely on electronics to function. But I am still not certain it's works with the Scott altitude compensating regulators we have.


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[larryb]

[Austintatious]

Interesting... did you have to do some plumbing to put it there?  My port is on the left sidewall just in front of my left elbow.

[larryb]

Because we use O2 virtually every flight and I dislike the clutter of wires and tubes all over the place I put some effort into making the O2D2 install as clean as possible. I bought extra 6mm and 4mm poly tube on Ebay, along with a selection of push connectors. The tubes run behind the lower edge of the panel. The tube comes out with a push connector next to each mic jack for both the pilot and co-pilot positions. Then the tube is spiral-wrapped to the headset cord. The supply tube runs behind the pilot side panel towards the rear where it is tied into the ship system. You'll need the MH step-down regulator.  You could tie-in where the outlet is in your arm rest.  I used 3m dual-lock to attach the unit to the pedestal. It is not an off-the-shelf solution, you have to be a bit creative. 

[chrisk]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Here are a couple 300 cuft cylinders on a cart - plus the adapter from the CGA540 to the planes O2 port. I started with lighter 200 or 220? But didn't feel I got that many refills. Rather than going to a third tank I went to larger T size which are also 2400 psi but it usually come fresh at 2600 psi
This is working out much better and they help keep me in shape



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I have a similar setup.  The tanks are heavy, being about 150 to 180 lbs when empty. The local welding shop charges $33 for an exchange ( for ABO not welding), but it is a pain to load the bottles into a vehicle, and of course the shop is not open on weekends.  That said, being able to fill the O2 in my hanger is worth every bit of the hassle.  Its definitely cost effective.   For the cost of 2 refills from a shop, I can rent two bottles for a year, fill the bottles,  and get a reasonable number of fills/top offs. (5+)  

 

 

[carusoam]

For the OP (jr)

There are a few threads that give the details on how to get the most out of the O2 supply tanks...

Since every time you fill the ship, the supply bottle goes to a lower pressure...

O2 bottles are cheap on the used market... for unfortunate reasons...

Many MSers have set-up a cascade system with two bottles so that they get the most use out of the higher pressure left in the new tank...

Also review some of the safety logic regarding chaining O2 tanks to the wall, or laying the cart down if you have the fancy cart, and not having any oils or grease anywhere near the O2...

O2 makes ordinary things very flammable... flammable things become so extra-flammable they can auto ignite...

Getting the right bits and pieces seems to work pretty well...

PP thoughts only, not a thermodynamicist...

Best regards,

-a-

[jrwilson]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

 

O2 bottles are cheap on the used market... for unfortunate reasons...

 

Like what?  So I take it I should not look for a used bottle?

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, Austintatious said:

Thank you but I was wondering about the Mountain high units in the cockpit, not the refill station.

If it is a medical bottle for your dog, you would want one of these veterinarian transfill adapters.

  https://www.ebay.com/i/131755930019?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=131755930019&targetid=596465713588&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9027599&poi=&campaignid=6470719577&mkgroupid=81597521270&rlsatarget=pla-596465713588&abcId=1140476&merchantid=113617921&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk7TuBRDQARIsAMRrfUZ3VULGswY28XUhN1ppiTkeEtRc-rastwRpE93gpONsYD51ramAqPkaAnL3EALw_wcB

 

[carusoam]

53 minutes ago, jrwilson said:

Like what?  So I take it I should not look for a used bottle?

Oops....

I was trying to be casual about the users of home O2 systems...

unfortunately, so many don’t use them for very long...   an end of the line situation...

Nothing wrong with the hardware itself...

The used bottles are quite low cost... 

A simple challenge of getting all the proper hardware to fit properly can be found around here...

Mountain High has a lot of the parts that may be of interest... (more expensive)

Best regards, sorry for the miss...

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

Like what?  So I take it I should not look for a used bottle?

If you are in this for the long haul you definitely want to buy your tanks rather than lease. I've owned mine for over 15 years and broke even after the first two years. With leased tanks, you are generally tied to the company you leased them from. But with tanks you own, which are unmarked, you can shop suppliers for the best deals. Regardless, you never pay for hydros, you just exchange your tanks for refilled ones and on your way in 10 min. Used tanks from any of the big suppliers was very reasonable - plus you’re getting the tank with the O2.

I think Anthony was talking about buying a used small tank for the plane but I thought you already had the built-in tank and am looking at refill solutions.

At least 5 others threads on this if you use google to search for them.


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[Yetti]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

. Regardless, you never pay for hydros, you just exchange your tanks for refilled ones and on your way in 10 min. Used tanks from any of the big suppliers was very reasonable - plus you’re getting the tank with the O2.
 

Umm you generally don't but say you use them for their intended oxy acetylene purpose and they sit around for 10 years.  then you probably will get tagged for a hydro.   This happened to me, but it was still very reasonable to just swap them out for an exchange.  like $50 for an exchange of 2.    And here is a hint on propane tanks.   Do the swap out at home depot/walmart auto thing if you have one expired.  And sometimes Tractor Supply will forget to check dates and the gas seems cheeper.    Some Tractor Supplys carry oxygen and tanks.

[gsxrpilot]

13 hours ago, larryb said:

 

I have my O2D2 mounted the same way in the same location. 

[kortopates]

14 hours ago, chrisk said:

I have a similar setup.  The tanks are heavy, being about 150 to 180 lbs when empty. The local welding shop charges $33 for an exchange ( for ABO not welding), but it is a pain to load the bottles into a vehicle, and of course the shop is not open on weekends.  That said, being able to fill the O2 in my hanger is worth every bit of the hassle.  Its definitely cost effective.   For the cost of 2 refills from a shop, I can rent two bottles for a year, fill the bottles,  and get a reasonable number of fills/top offs. (5+)  

Yep, they are heavy but that sounds a bit high, I've seen specs from 139lb to 143lbs https://www.praxairdirect.com/Industrial-Gas-and-Welding-Information-Center/Cylinder-Cryo-and-Gas-System-Information/Cylinder-Size-Information.html

Luckily the Gas shops put the cylinder back into the car and then I just have to unload it onto the cart when I get it back to the hangar so its not terribly bad. $33 is a great price on ABO! But consider purchasing your bottles - its been a long time but I think I paid mine off in just a couple years and I've had them over 15 yrs now.

[Bob_Belville]

I bought 2 150 scf tanks from Airgas. As necessary I swap my emptier ta k for a full one for about $25. Since the tanks are stamped Airgas the tank I get will be in date. 

A third tank in the cascade would get my portable tank a little fuller on average but since I'm flying a na M20E I don't use a lot of O2 and I do not exchange a tank more than once per year even though I fill a portable tank for other pilots now and then. With this system O2 is almost free. 

[DonMuncy]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

Luckily the Gas shops put the cylinder back into the car and then I just have to unload it onto the cart when I get it back to the hangar so its not terribly bad. 

You are lucky. In my part of the country, the shops will not touch the cylinder until I take it out of the car, and will take it out to the dock, but not in the car. They claim liability concerns.

I have one very large one and one slightly smaller. It is just about all I can do to get the large one in and out of the back of my station wagon. But I am not quite as tough as I once was.

[kortopates]

You are lucky. In my part of the country, the shops will not touch the cylinder until I take it out of the car, and will take it out to the dock, but not in the car. They claim liability concerns.
I have one very large one and one slightly smaller. It is just about all I can do to get the large one in and out of the back of my station wagon. But I am not quite as tough as I once was.

One nation wide distributor I used earlier on had the policy - I think AirGas, but luckily not all. It's a big help when they load me up!


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