Factory Closed Down?

[GLJA]

I’m still trying to get my head wrapped around only 6 planes per year. 
rounding up to $1M per plane, plus part sales..... what is their Net Income from these areas?

Direct Costs?

Indirect costs?

Insurance?

Hell, I run a wholesale business that does more than $6M (add parts to be another $3M and I’m right in line with top line sales....)  

We do okay, profit share is decent.... but I have 4 employees. If I added another 196 I’d be screwed.

It’s a shame they weren’t publicly traded and we could see the books. On that note, maybe it’s time for a Mooney IPO

 

[JT]

The vision:

Cessna (a household name) = Chevy, lets learn to fly!

Cirrus= Lexus, I can do this.

Mooney= Ferrari, more luxurious, faster, more efficient, more expensive. Pilot's airplane. Built from Aluminum alloys like Gulfstream, TBM, Embraer, Dassault, Beechcraft, Cessna Citation, and of course lots more. Powered by pistons (just like 1.2 billion automobiles). Gave in and installed a parachute (Ferrari didn't want to put airbags in their cars either). A Pressurized turboprop in development. An American company supported by the US government and household name in the US, like Ferrari is in Italy.

 

[Yetti]

8 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Most factories hire third party security on service contract.  It's a cost and security thing.  No benefits for the security personnel.  When you find security sleeping on job at night, inside theft,  etc, it is easier to terminate a contract with a security service company than it is to terminate an employee working security.  Also if there is any employee unrest you don't want security personnel to be on the same payroll as the employees. So maybe all Mooney employees have been furloughed.  When they run out of cash is when the security service company walks off the job.

Also I am surprised that someone hasn't had direct contact or conversation with any employees by now.

Yep.  I used to do outsourcing advisory.  

[MikeOH]

15 hours ago, Yetti said:

Sounds like they did not furlough the security guards so soles do remain.     It's a weird accuracy thing, I can't turn it off.  

And, to be accurate, assuming they all have two feet, there are twice as many soles as souls remaining at Mooney

[INA201]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

I’m ready to go...

I’ll take every MS suggestion and put it to work immediately...

 A year on the road behind the yoke of an Acclaim, visiting every MSer airport on GSXer’s map...

Eating at every restaurant ever mentioned... on MS

Constant video updates along the way... posted on MS

You will all notice the improvement in my use of the centerline over the year... 

Better get some decent TT to go with that... top off the precision landing training with DK... 

Starting with that new marketing campaign... Andrew did a great job on that... so far...

Posting pics from my favorite locations you guys visited this year alone...

The deep woods camping in Canada... the islands in the Caribbean... skiing in the mountains... football in Alabama... the Jersey shore... on my way to Europe...  

gonna need to get a Mooney mountain flying check out...

Spend a few days putting that fancy wax on...

Probably too big a job for one ordinary PP... 

Fortunately, with MS... I come with a whole community...   

Gotta start one of those fancy MS PP presentations...  no not that MS and PP... Microsoft PowerPoint... 

My favorite job was selling Million dollar machines... getting to know each Customer is a blast!  My second favorite job was buying Million dollar machines... getting to know each supplier was much easier...

Having each customer get to know the machine is even better... the relationships can last a life time...

I’ll have two PP presentations with me...

1. flying the Mooney... awesome things people do with Mooneys...
2. Mooney hardware and technology...   (the one every wants to know you have, and doesn’t want to take the time to actually sit through it... it’s a hand-out...)  

 

I’ll volunteer for the VP of sales gig...  

Ina, is that what you had in mind?
 

PP thoughts and dreams, not a plane sales guy, yet...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Sounds like a plan!  

It would be more exciting for sure! 

 

[HRM]

10 hours ago, JT said:

Mooney= Ferrari

I prefer Porsche in the comparative for the following reasons:

• Mooney once put a Porsche engine in a Mooney.
• Porsche sits at the start of the exotic car line-up, Mooney is likewise against its competition.
• My 911 (991.2) has a steel cage with an aluminum shell--who would'a thought?
• Working on a 911 is just as tight and absurd as working on a Mooney.
• A 911 seats four with a backseat fit only for children, likewise my E.
• ...there are probably others.

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

And, to be accurate, assuming they all have two feet, there are twice as many soles as souls remaining at Mooney

I think it was souls as how many souls are on board when you are going down in flames.....

[cliffy]

I have refrained from saying much about why until some official word comes out but I will comment on a parallel universe from where I live. 

Tourism has exploded in 3 or 4 years around here. Literally exploded. We went from maybe 250,000 tourists (I'm being generous) walking out to look over Horseshoe Bend (Google it) to today, we are looking at close to 2 MILLION a year taking the pilgrimage. Sometimes the hike over the hill looks like the lines of people leaving N Africa for Europe did  a couple of years ago. The city built a parking lot twice the size they thought it should be and its 4 times too small now (even at $10 a head). 

What caused all the enticement?  SOCIAL MEDIA!  Twitter in particular. The power of social media to generate interest in any enterprise is staggering. If a company doesn't have a social media campaign they aren't in business.

And this is from a Luddite when it comes to such things. I didn't believe or fathom the power contained therein until all this happened. It is the wave of the future for sales improvement in any field. What's the title called ? Social Influencer? It really does work that way. Facebook (I still don't do it) Instagram, all the rest, they really do work (from what I can see here), to generate interest in a product.

Look how President Trump has been able to neuter the main street media with twitter. He doesn't need them. He can get his message out to 100 million people without the normal media. It works!

If and or when Mooney raises from the ashes like a Phoenix they will have to  have a big social media campaign .

carusoam hit the nail on the head! Only they'll need 3 doing it at least. Showing how much fun one can have in a Mooney. BUT, they will need to vet the pilots very carefully as any accident will kill the program and the pilots will have to have a good "screen presence" to pull it off. Not everyone can come across as "attractive to watch " on the big or little screen.

Can you imagine how it could be for regular folks to subscribe and watch as three different groups of pilots fly around the country doing what normal folks only dream of? Maybe one could be found to do his normal work week in a Mooney. I think it could bring about a large "following" on social media and then the subscribers are a built in advertising base. Have meet and greet social events with the pilots around the country like some Youtube posters do. Have the pilots show up at fly ins to meet and greet, etc etc etc  It goes on and on. 

Think outside the normal box.

IIRC the original Cirrus sales force had to buy an airplane and fly around the country demonstrating the airplane. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by cliffy
spelling

[GLJA]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

I have refrained from saying much about why until some official word comes out but I will comment on a parallel universe from where I live. 

Tourism has exploded in 3 or 4 years around here. Literally exploded. We went from maybe 250,000 tourists (I'm being generous) walking out to look over Horseshoe Bend (Google it) to today, we are looking at close to 2 MILLION a year taking the pilgrimage. Sometimes the hike over the hill looks like the lines of people leaving N Africa for Europe did  a couple of years ago. The city built a parking lot twice the size they thought it should be and its 4 times too small now (even at $10 a head). 

What caused all the enticement?  SOCIAL MEDIA!  Twitter in particular. The power of social media to generate interest in any enterprise is staggering. If a company doesn't have a social media campaign they aren't in business.

And this is from a Luddite when it comes to such things. I didn't believe or fathom the power contained therein until all this happened. It is the wave of the future for sales improvement in any field. What's the title called ? Social Influencer? It really does work that way. Facebook (I still don't do it) Instagram, all the rest, they really do work (from what I can see here), to generate interest in a product.

Look how President Trump has been able to neuter the main street media with twitter. He doesn't need them. He can get his message out to 100 million people without the normal media. It works!

If and or when Mooney raises from the ashes like a Phoenix they will have to  have a big social media campaign .

carusoam hit the nail on the head! Only they'll need 3 doing it at least. Showing how much fun one can have in a Mooney. BUT, they will need to vet the pilots very carefully as any accident will kill the program and the pilots will have to have a good "screen presence" to pull it off. Not everyone can come across as "attractive to watch " on the big or little screen.

Can you imagine how it could be for regular folks to subscribe and watch as three different groups of pilots fly around the country doing what normal folks only dream of? Maybe one could be found to do his normal work week in a Mooney. I think it could bring about a large "following" on social media and then the subscribers are a built in advertising base. Have meet and greet social events with the pilots around the country like some Youtube posters do. Have the pilots show up at fly ins to meet and greet, etc etc etc  It goes on and on. 

Think outside the normal box.

IIRC the original Cirrus sales force had to buy an airplane and fly around the country demonstrating the airplane. 

You're on the right track for sure. The "Mooney Ambassador(s)" would need to be personable, friendly, educated (about the aircraft and its' components) and be able to speak to the masses. Many would apply, but the select few would have to be extremely charismatic, and eloquent in front of a camera. 

I would compare this to the hunting scene, and Cabela's / Bass Pro. Not sure if a lot of you will get the gist of this, but Steve Ecklund is a good friend, and the Cabela's Hunting Ambassador. He travels probably 6 months out of the year. Hunting, filming and promoting products, the store, and guiding outfitters. My point with this is, he's a down to earth, smiling happy guy who is willing to speak with anyone. He also has a sense of humor (if you want a real look at his sense of haha amidst death threats, google "Steve Ecklund cougar kill"). 

How he keeps his day job, and his beautiful wife is beyond me. 

[INA201]

These are awesome posts about the poor marketing Mooney has done.  A lot of people ask about my Mooney locally because very few people have seen them up close let alone ridden in one.  
They often come with a negative preconceived notion unfortunately.  They leave with a much improved perception and often a very positive view of the aircraft.  The numbers guys do just like we do. “Man, that is a cool plane and is probably the best bang for the buck.” We know it IS the best bang for the buck. 

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, HRM said:

I prefer Porsche in the comparative for the following reasons:

• Mooney once put a Porsche engine in a Mooney.
• Porsche sits at the start of the exotic car line-up, Mooney is likewise against its competition.
• My 911 (991.2) has a steel cage with an aluminum shell--who would'a thought?
• Working on a 911 is just as tight and absurd as working on a Mooney.
• A 911 seats four with a backseat fit only for children, likewise my E.
• ...there are probably others.

Air-cooled (the older ones) boxer motor.

Way faster than you'd think given the hp.

...or...

Less hp than you think.   

 

[Danb]

Couldn’t agree more about the relationship between our planes and the vision many other pilots have about them.

Just Monday I was consulting a recent retiree on tax planning and boring stuff, he mentioned it’s may be time to get back into flying, he said how’s your Mooney I relayed the positives and mentioned anytime you like to fly let me know. His first very first statement was the Mooneys are to small, I went into my nice explanation of how that’s a miscommunication mentioning the shoulder room vs others, the 200+ knot speed of the big guys,the efficiency of the short fellas, the long no trips of Mike, high flying of Paul and so on 
yeah the image needs to be changed when the very first thing out of another’s pilots mouth is cramped size, Houston we have a problem.

promote, market and advertise, it works..
 

[DXB]

Characteristically caustic humor, and maybe a tad bit of new insight, from Mr. Paul Bertorelli: 

https://www.avweb.com/insider/mooneys-last-act/?fbclid=IwAR1ihRm62kjCZ3bM2sAp7NBJx49f2X8dBQ9IeWNC9OGkAdxN_5tmySf6oe0

"For nearly a century, this company gives cats a bad name. It has simply refused to stay dead."

...and also...

" ...saying that Mooney defines hope springs eternal is to do unspeakable violence to the concept."

Please tell us how you really feel Paul .

Edited November 21, 2019 by DXB

[aviatoreb]

8 hours ago, Danb said:

Couldn’t agree more about the relationship between our planes and the vision many other pilots have about them.

Just Monday I was consulting a recent retiree on tax planning and boring stuff, he mentioned it’s may be time to get back into flying, he said how’s your Mooney I relayed the positives and mentioned anytime you like to fly let me know. His first very first statement was the Mooneys are to small, I went into my nice explanation of how that’s a miscommunication mentioning the shoulder room vs others, the 200+ knot speed of the big guys,the efficiency of the short fellas, the long no trips of Mike, high flying of Paul and so on 
yeah the image needs to be changed when the very first thing out of another’s pilots mouth is cramped size, Houston we have a problem.

promote, market and advertise, it works..
 

I bought my mooney after a thorough search and I decided it had the best leg to for this tall pilot.  Other planes that I sat in but with worse leg room included bonanza cirrus cessna p210, diamond (which I owned previously) 

[steingar]

My biggest worry is the longer the factory stays dead the less likely they'll get back any workers who know how to assemble the airplane, should they ever do so again.  An OEM parts business to supply the extant fleet is a darn good idea, but this just isn't the way to start it.  Heck, what they're doing right now isn't the way to start anything.

[jetdriven]

34 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

This Sunday gone past, I flew to a fly in.  There all the aircraft lined up and parked, Piper Cherokee, Jodels, Robins, DA40s, amd one Mooney.

After Breakfast I was one if the last to walk out to the line, there was eveyone all crowded around my Mooney, all having a nose and peak.  They are machines of mystery, we need to publicise that aura far more around social media.  Noone would ever buy anything else ever again.

Andrew, 

I think people like my J model too, but when you explain to them that  newest airplane cost six times as much, the inside really is not really any bigger, it only carries 3 people with 3 hours of gas, it burns nearly twice the gas too, and it’s a lot harder to land and It drags the ground Like a pregnant guppy, Interest wanes. But I have sold 4 M20Js so far  so far so there’s that. 

[INA201]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

This Sunday gone past, I flew to a fly in.  There all the aircraft lined up and parked, Piper Cherokee, Jodels, Robins, DA40s, amd one Mooney.

After Breakfast I was one if the last to walk out to the line, there was eveyone all crowded around my Mooney, all having a nose and peak.  They are machines of mystery, we need to publicise that aura far more around social media.  Noone would ever buy anything else ever again.

Andrew, 

That’s been my experience too!  When other pilots jump in for a ride is when the assimilation begins.  Not everyone is assimilated but many are for sure.  Yes Cirrus and others  have a modern look but the cool factor can’t exactly be put into words.  
The plane makes us do cool stuff too.  While leaving the fly in you pull off the ground and stay low while gaining speed. At just the right moment the gear magically folds underneath...90kts...100kts...120kts now you know what to do next.  

[Jerry 5TJ]

11 minutes ago, INA201 said:

The plane makes us do cool stuff too.  While leaving the fly in you pull off the ground and stay low while gaining speed. At just the right moment the gear magically folds underneath...90kts...100kts...120kts now you know what to do next.

CFIT?

[DanM20C]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

it burns nearly twice the gas too, and it’s a lot harder to land

An M20V at 10K ft will do around 190-200kts at 12-13nmg.  An M20U at 10K ft will do 180kts on 14nmg.  Your J can get up to 17-18nmg at 140-150kts.  So as they go faster they are less efficient but not by your "nearly twice" figure.   Flown at similar speeds to J's the Acclaim's fuel burn will be within 20%.  Probably less then a 10% delta for the M20U.  

A lot harder to land?  I have never found that to be true.

Cheers,

Dan

[INA201]

2 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

CFIT?

What? Controlling Flight In Transition

[Parker_Woodruff]

Looks like Mooney got 4 more out in Q3.  8 total aircraft for the year thru Q3.

Piper and Cirrus doing well.  Surprising amount of C206s rolling off the line.

https://gama.aero/facts-and-statistics/quarterly-shipments-and-billings/

[MRussell]

I’m sorry guys, but Mooney didn’t fail this time because of a lousy social media strategy. 

[Andy95W]

41 minutes ago, MRussell said:

I’m sorry guys, but Mooney didn’t fail this time because of a lousy social media strategy. 

My gut feeling is that the folks at the Mooney factory feel the same way.  This explains why their limited social media efforts were lacking, and it even explains why their website is/was very poor.

A lot of us who are 50+ don't really get how influential social media has become, simply because we do so little of it outside of Facebook and MooneySpace.  For everyone under 40, Mooney's lack of effort in our digital age is laughable and embarrassing. 

[DXB]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:10 PM, 1980Mooney said:

 I noticed that the Chinese company, Midea Group, which bought the North American Electolux and Eureka vacuum business in 2016, simply abandoned much of the product line completely without any support.  It is one thing to stop selling a product, but it is another to just stop supplying repair parts even if the parts could be priced for an adequate return.  They did not care about the damage to the brand or customers that were abandoned.  These Chinese owners, Meijing Group, which control the company holding Mooney have no cultural tie to the  general aviation industry, Mooney pilots, or Kerrville and have no other investments in the US.

It's been two weeks now since the employees were furloughed.  It's rather odd that the company website still seems to indicate business as usual.  One might hope this intertia reflects indecision while a plan for the company and its assets is solidified.  It does seem more likely however that the present situation reflects what you suggest - complete indifference to the US market going forward.

[MooneyMitch]

Again, incredibly sad for the factory workers.