MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 Mooney Electric Airplane Company! +10. Someone please contact Elon!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Hopefully not Paul Allen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Allen I know, I know..... it was just a name example of an entrepreneur and visionary type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 Mooney Electric Airplane Company! +10. Someone please contact Elon!! Once we have energy density of 800kwh...things begin to look feasible!Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: Once we have energy density of 800kwh...things begin to look feasible! Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Seriously though..... do we have enough electricity and its supporting infrastructure to support all this? Electric cars and electric airplanes, etc? Seeing 30 + Teslas backed up at the Madonna Inn Tesla charging station, waiting their turn, on any given night over the recent holidays was enlightening!! And, as we know, Tesla charging time is not equal to making a fuel stop in our sinful gasoline machines at Chevron...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: Seriously though..... do we have enough electricity and its supporting infrastructure to support all this? Electric cars and electric airplanes, etc? Didn't the Chinese (sic!) just announce they have a tokamak style fusion reactor that actually put out a little more energy than it took to get and keep it going? If not, it's coming. Yes, I know it's been coming for the past 50 or so years, but look how energy density of batteries improved in the last 10. Or efficiency of solar panels. It will all be electric soon. Edited January 11, 2020 by tmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, tmo said: Didn't the Chinese (sic!) just announce they have a tokamak style fusion reactor that actually put out a little more energy than it took to get and keep it going? If not, it's coming. Yes, I know it's been coming for the past 50 or so years, but look how energy density of batteries improved in the last 10. Or efficiency of solar panels. It will all be electric soon. Hmmmmm......... my parents always told me “don’t put all your eggs in one basket “ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 Seriously though..... do we have enough electricity and its supporting infrastructure to support all this? Electric cars and electric airplanes, etc? Seeing 30 + Teslas backed up at the Madonna Inn Tesla charging station, waiting their turn, on any given night over the recent holidays was enlightening!! And, as we know, Tesla charging time is not equal to making a fuel stop in our sinful gasoline machines at Chevron...... Yes California does have its issues in the last 6 months I have spent a total of 4.5 hrs charging my vehicle on long trips, of which 4.5 hrs would have been needed for food and environmental breaks anyway. Every day I wake up to a tank of 320 miles without ever having to stop, which seriously reduces the time I spend energizing a vehicle with fuel, or dealing with normal oil changes etc.Battery availability is an issue, which once again, Tesla has an insurmountable lead in with the acquisition of Maxwell. You can charge one at any RV park if you have to. I just drove 2 hrs to the Florida Mooney Lunch group and 2 hrs back, and have 102 miles of range left. Charging now, no need for a gas stop tomorrow Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 Ah, now California issues....... that’s another (huge) topic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 46 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: Mooney Electric Airplane Company! +10. Someone please contact Elon!! Can we get that as an STC aftermarket upgrade please? I need an electric motor equivalent to a 350hp engine. With enough range for 2500nm. And fast charging. Please. Oh - one more thing Mr Musk - I stand by my respectful and earnest request that since you are so go-smack rich anyway, then why bother charging us at Mooneyspace, your most loyal and thankful customers. You can charge everyone else if you wish, but not us. Thank you. Sincerely, Erik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: Yes California does have its issues in the last 6 months I have spent a total of 4.5 hrs charging my vehicle on long trips, of which 4.5 hrs would have been needed for food and environmental breaks anyway. Every day I wake up to a tank of 320 miles without ever having to stop, which seriously reduces the time I spend energizing a vehicle with fuel, or dealing with normal oil changes etc. Battery availability is an issue, which once again, Tesla has an insurmountable lead in with the acquisition of Maxwell. You can charge one at any RV park if you have to. I just drove 2 hrs to the Florida Mooney Lunch group and 2 hrs back, and have 102 miles of range left. Charging now, no need for a gas stop tomorrow Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Love riding in my friends Tesla X......similar characteristics as California Screamin’ roller coaster acceleration at Disneyland’s California Adventure Park ! Yippee doddle!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: I need an electric motor equivalent to a 350hp engine. With enough range for 2500nm. And fast charging. Please. For under $200k? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 55 minutes ago, MooneyMitch said: Love riding in my friends Tesla X......similar characteristics as California Screamin’ roller coaster acceleration at Disneyland’s California Adventure Park ! Yippee doddle!!! yea,,,, 0-60 in 2.7 sec...It's SWEEET! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, tmo said: For under $200k? ..no too expensive. Please re-read my post - a very polite appeal to Mr Musk to provide me, AND all of us Mooneyspacer's a free electric Mooney. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerodon Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/8/2020 at 7:55 AM, N205S said: I had a pending order through LASAR, whom put it in with the Factory, for the 3'' Rudder Pedal Extensions for my new-to-me M20J 205. What's the chances these still get shipped out from Mooney? Any other options available for these? I am in the process of drawing these and getting them made as an owner produced part. I'm willing to provide a CAD and machining service to others, as long as you understand the OPP process and that I am not selling airplane parts. Aerodon 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 Teslas and airplanes go together, how? I got a ride in a Tesla at my home drome... Airport owner’s car. When he said lean back, head on the headrest... I obliged... The launch is amazing... full torque available as the pedal gets mashed... Its a fancy, nice, car... I have seen it go head to head against a hypo Audi... Lets discuss filling the tanks... I usually have all week before the next flight... lots of solar collector space on the roof... How many square feet do I need? How much does it cost for all the equipment? Can I make engineering sense of this? We have lots of solar collection going on at my home drome... somebody there knows what is up. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmo Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 Tesla does photo cell roof shingles, just sayin' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N205S Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/12/2020 at 7:35 PM, Aerodon said: I am in the process of drawing these and getting them made as an owner produced part. I'm willing to provide a CAD and machining service to others, as long as you understand the OPP process and that I am not selling airplane parts. Aerodon Awesome! Please reach out once you have them duplicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urs_Wildermuth Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Amidst all the Tesla discussion here, what is happening at the factory? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0TreeLemur Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 2:56 PM, MooneyMitch said: Mooney Electric Airplane Company! +10. Someone please contact Elon!! Read a paper the other day wherein a research group in Australia describe development and testing of a Lithium-Sulphur battery that has a charge storage capacity of over 2.7 kWh per kg of battery mass, which about half what is needed to fly a Mooney as far on 1 kg of battery as you can on 1 kg of 100LL. This technology gets us close. Article here: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/1/eaay2757 Assumptions: 100LL = 33.4 kWh/gal = 12.25 kWh/kg Otto cycle efficiency: 40%. Effective energy density of 100LL: 4.9 kWh/kg of flight power. Having read literature that is skeptical of electric aviation, I'm pleasantly surprised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said: Read a paper the other day wherein a research group in Australia describe development and testing of a Lithium-Sulphur battery that has a charge storage capacity of over 2.7 kWh per kg of battery mass, which about half what is needed to fly a Mooney as far on 1 kg of battery as you can on 1 kg of 100LL. This technology gets us close. Article here: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/1/eaay2757 Assumptions: 100LL = 33.4 kWh/gal = 12.25 kWh/kg Otto cycle efficiency: 40%. Effective energy density of 100LL: 4.9 kWh/kg of flight power. Having read literature that is skeptical of electric aviation, I'm pleasantly surprised. WOW! MAYBE, someday soon, electric storage will match and even exceed 100LL for energy to weight density. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, aviatoreb said: WOW! MAYBE, someday soon, electric storage will match and even exceed 100LL for energy to weight density. I wouldn't hold my breath. Gasoline is miraculous. Think about it, a gallo of the stuff can propel a car weighing tons 30-40 miles. Batteries don't improve at the same rate as computer components. Changes in chemistry are far more incremental. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, steingar said: I wouldn't hold my breath. Gasoline is miraculous. Think about it, a gallo of the stuff can propel a car weighing tons 30-40 miles. Batteries don't improve at the same rate as computer components. Changes in chemistry are far more incremental. Gasoline is miraculous. Cited above, "Australia describe development and testing of a Lithium-Sulphur battery that has a charge storage capacity of over 2.7 kWh per kg of battery mass" is also miraculous. Given its that far - I won't hold my breath since I will pass out in 2 or 3 minutes and I don't think it will happen in the next 2 or 3 minutes. But Maybe maybe, in my lifetime, it will get to compete with avgas. However, also besides energy density, are more properties to make a battery technology viable for such a use, such as, recharge duty cycle - how many times can it be recharged and still hold a large fraction of its original power, cost to build including complexity, but also rarity of the materials. Stability - e.g. certain lithium battery technologies are very volatile since bursting into flames is not something I want on my airplane. Recycle-able? It would be nice when the battery is all used up if I could crush it up and make a new battery, or at least dispose of the materials in a reasonable way. Of course cost is mixed up in all this. If a battery costs a thousand times more than a hundred fill-ups of avgas and its only good for 50 recharges, then .... its not worth it. Even if a single recharge marginal cost is almost nothing. All that said, I have high confidence that liquid dino-fuel is not going to be necessary before my sons are grandpas. If not electric batteries - then I will be just as happy with a mini nuclear reactor to be invented. How about 100,000 hour endurance for a 20,000,000 nm range? (corrected for winds aloft of course). (and considering the need to install the Jose' liquid dispenser relief tube). Once upon a time horses were IT. And transportation technology revolved around improving the experience involved with horses. Suspension systems for carriages. Building a better whip. Then one day, liquid dino-juice replaced horses. Once upon a time, traveling on the ground with horses was replaced with traveling on the ground with wheels, or ships powered by engines. Then travel through the air made certain travel over the ground obsolete. Then one day.... Beam me up Scottie! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinoguym20 Posted January 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 I’ve been reluctant to post due to the unprofessional and immature responses by a few MS’ers who let our community down, but thought I would share this. I am 100% certain that Mooney as we knew it is dead, but maybe this is a glimmer of hope for the good people of Kerrville. A new business could be coming to Kerrville, bringing roughly 200 new jobs with it. During the economic improvement corporation's meeting on Monday, Kerr Economic Development Corporation Chief Operating Officer Gil Salinas presented a plan named Sky Master, a project that involves an aeronautic and robotics business potentially coming to Kerrville. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 Chinoguy, What community is ‘our community’? It is hard to fit in a community when calling a few people immature and unprofessional. Most of us are not professional writers, maybe you mis-understood somebody? You have launched enough insults to be locked from MS... It doesn’t happen often... But all it takes is a few people pushing the report post button. Why bring the rain? What is in it for you? Your negativity isn’t helping you, or anyone else... You should join the MS community where people are generally here to help each other out... What type of help are you looking for? What type of help are you able to give? Want to start over? You seem to be having a string of tough days... Are you sure you want to share it here? Just a PP wondering why... Best regards, -a- 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, chinoguym20 said: I’ve been reluctant to post due to the unprofessional and immature responses by a few MS’ers who let our community down, .... Whatever it is you had to say, it was lost in your repeated pattern to open with an insult of the community. This superior self attitude you assert by putting down the group does not reflect well on you, and I hope if you intend to stay you can find a way to say your piece without this bad habit. Sometimes difficult, but over all, I find this community to be a joyous group from all sorts of backgrounds, belief systems, experience and professions that in my decade+ here I find it both fun and beneficial to my knowledge and hopefully safer as a pilot. Edited January 15, 2020 by aviatoreb 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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