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Normal TAS


NJMac

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Was looking at flight aware for a listing of All Americans, N123BB, and they filed at 197 mph / 171 ktas at 13,000. Anyone care to comment on that performance? Im asking since it frankly seems a little slow for a bravo.

 

Anyone know anything more regarding that plane in particular? I'm considering upgrading my E and this one was suggested to me for it's FIKI.

 

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Was looking at flight aware for a listing of All Americans, N123BB, and they filed at 197 mph / 171 ktas at 13,000. Anyone care to comment on that performance? Im asking since it frankly seems a little slow for a bravo.
 
Anyone know anything more regarding that plane in particular? I'm considering upgrading my E and this one was suggested to me for it's FIKI.
 
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That's a very nice looking Bravo! Check or the actual track log for that flight and you will see the performance is better than filled:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N123BB/history/20190829/1845Z/KABQ/1T7/tracklog


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34 minutes ago, NJMac said:

Was looking at flight aware for a listing of All Americans, N123BB, and they filed at 197 mph / 171 ktas at 13,000. Anyone care to comment on that performance? Im asking since it frankly seems a little slow for a bravo.

Agree- I would expect the bravo to be closer to 190 ktas at 13.  My A36 will do 180 at that altitude and the bravo should be be faster in every phase of flight.

 

26 minutes ago, alextstone said:

That's a very nice looking Bravo! Check or the actual track log for that flight and you will see the performance is better than filled:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N123BB/history/20190829/1845Z/KABQ/1T7/tracklog

Flight aware reports gps derived ground speed. 

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7 minutes ago, smccray said:

Agree- I would expect the bravo to be closer to 190 ktas at 13.  My A36 will do 180 at that altitude and the bravo should be be faster in every phase of flight.

 

Flight aware reports gps derived ground speed. 

Dont forgot that the tnio550 is a decent chunk more efficient than the tio 540

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1 hour ago, NJMac said:

Was looking at flight aware for a listing of All Americans, N123BB, and they filed at 197 mph / 171 ktas at 13,000. Anyone care to comment on that performance? Im asking since it frankly seems a little slow for a bravo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks right to me.

I file 170 to 175 knots (depending on temperature) at 13,000 -- FIKI M20M running LOP.

David

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14 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

Dont forgot that the tnio550 is a decent chunk more efficient than the tio 540

Agree- if we’re talking about efficiency- but in this case it’s just a matter of speed.  The Bravo should be faster not withstanding the difference in efficiency.  The Bonanza is heavier, has more drag, and as a result is slower than a Mooney at a given level of horsepower.  
 

Fuel flow per NM traveled is a different measure altogether.  The TNIO550 is a pretty efficient setup, but at altitude you’re still looking at 11-12 NM per gallon in cruise.  No where near as good as a J, but slow down a little and it improves a lot.

My bet- the bravo in this flight was pulled back not running as high % horsepower.  Slower flight is more efficient... but that doesn’t make much sense in a Bravo...

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Id also add that Im a giant fan of the ovation, the bravo is great but i like continental more, and it seems that the ovation is faster than the bravo until about 13 to 14k. At 12.5K i was seeing 181 knots at peak egt, burning around 13 to 14gph. With the 310hp NA vs 270 turboed, seems like the climb time isn't too different.

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5 minutes ago, NJMac said:

What do you get for KTAS in your ovation?

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GPS derived ground speeds... for my O1 powered ship... limited to 2500 rpm... when O3 powered... cruise with 2550 rpm a bit faster, and a 1/2 gph more FF (round numbers based on aged memories)

175 KTs ROP 15gph

165 KTs LOP 12.5gph

Usually flown in the 10 - 12k’ range...

Go Long Body!

Best regards,

-a-

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Everyone seems to run at different power settings never mind the fact that they may have had an oversight when entering their TAS in the flight plan.  It would be relatively easy to carry over a value from a lower altitude by mistake.  I should get 190+ at 13k running at 29/2400.

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58 minutes ago, Davidv said:

Everyone seems to run at different power settings never mind the fact that they may have had an oversight when entering their TAS in the flight plan.  It would be relatively easy to carry over a value from a lower altitude by mistake.  I should get 190+ at 13k running at 29/2400.

Your fuel flow?

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29/2400 in a Bravo = 18 gph.

That power setting conservatively gets you 165 TAS below 5k, and 200 TAS at FL220.

I usually fly upper teens to lower FLs and plan for 180-190 TAS.

Will the plane run faster, yep, but plan on 20 gph and higher temps. I'm following the advice of many Bravo owners and running the engine conservatively.



Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod

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1 hour ago, irishpilot said:

29/2400 in a Bravo = 18 gph.

That power setting conservatively gets you 165 TAS below 5k, and 200 TAS at FL220.

I usually fly upper teens to lower FLs and plan for 180-190 TAS.

Will the plane run faster, yep, but plan on 20 gph and higher temps. I'm following the advice of many Bravo owners and running the engine conservatively.



Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod
 

Doesnt the bravo have issues with chts in the flight levels?

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6 hours ago, David Medders said:

Your fuel flow?

Around 18.5.

also, I may have been a little high on my speed, I was thinking of what I see at 18000 and adjusting down since I don’t fly a lot at 13k, but it may not be as linear.  Either I’m on long trips or quick ones at lower altitudes.

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TKS normally takes 6-7 it’s off the TAS. The plane also has long range tanks so it's not hard to fly at gross weight. 
 

In the end it all depends how the owner operates the engine, knows his/her actual performance, and comfort keeping the speed up on arrival. If they’re using wheels up total time to calculate average speed it can dramatically change the numbers entered. 

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I’d assume he was running LOP or very efficient, my Bravo can run all day on 12+ gph 8000 ft and 160-165 knots, good for training or just flying around or 200+  at 14000+ and 19.5 gph and everywhere in between. Lately when just punching holes in the sky I’ve been 23” 2250 and cruising at 150. Flight aware often messes up the requested speed

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