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Transitioning from M20C to M20M Bravo


Lukon

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23 minutes ago, irishpilot said:


BTW, the POH is the standard for what folks should study when asking where they can fly in/out of.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod
 

I wholeheartedly agree.  It only takes about a minute to do a computation from the POH.  I've taken off from Leadville with a DA of slightly over 13,000 feet and met the wheels off of 1400 feet ground roll per the POH with no obstacle.  Technically, all takeoff and landing distances should be confirmed with the POH for each flight, however, just like working weight and balance "what ifs"  for the worst case forward and rearward CG during transition training, when working with known temperatures and previously calculated distances, with many hours in a particular model airplane, those comfortable distances are pretty well known.  In the earlier post I should have said, "If you don't feel comfortable with the published landing distances for your airplane, then get additional training from a Mooney specific instructor."

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I have gotten enough experience in my bravo after about 700 hours to be comfortable putting it down on 2600 or 2700 feet, which are the short runways(6-24 and 2-20) at  Augustine where we frequently go. The wind is usually ripping down those runways when I use them so that helps too.

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Using the O... with O1 power... 280hp.

1I5.  I as in India...

a short paved runway used for glider ops... lots of grass all around it...

Runway length... 2,275’

2 people going skiing in the hills of upstate NY... near Woodstock...

The only thing uncomfortable about the experience is the end of the runway starts to show up... and trees aren’t that far away...

T/O run was about 1200’

 

5B6 a more common destination for my O... Cape Cod...

Runway length... 2,300’

Two adults and two small-ish children seen standing in my avatar pic...

 

The Long Body is pretty predictable... use the POH data... know the DA...

Learn energy control...

Get practice...

It worked for me...

 

The Bravo has a touch less hp then the O1... so calculating the T/O run is important as well...

PP thoughts, not a CFI... but I did buy the DK album...  :)

Best regards,

-a-

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23 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Bravo/Ovation owners: I wonder what you consider a minimum runway length in a long body? (I was looking at visiting Annapolis MD yesterday. Several airports with 2500' runways are more convenient than BFW. I'm fine with 2500' in my E.)  

Bob Freeway and college park, both near one of my Doctors around BWI are ok to do in the Bravo, Block Island is another smaller tract . Since I’m based on a bigger airport three runways over 5000 ft. optically the airports I referenced seems challenging I make sure I’m at 1.3 VSO on short final trimming full nose up decreasing my speed on short final all is then well. Seems like our best landings are when runway conditions or weather conditions are not optimal. Otherwise I try to land at 2800 feet to 3000ft +. 

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Whatever length one chooses, it should include a margin for a rejected landing. Bounces, gusts, etc. Also ensure you have a distance chosen for a go around to ensure you have a visual point of when to power up if you are not firmly on the ground.

Of course the same goes for taking off from where you landed. How much runway would you have for ground roll, t/o, and abort? Terrain at the end of the runway?

All considerations based on the aircraft, pilot, and conditions.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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13 hours ago, carusoam said:

The Bravo has a touch less hp then the O1... so calculating the T/O run is important as well...

This is very true and I felt a big difference in taking off in an ovation with a newer hartzell prop vs my original McCauley.  It’s hard to believe that 10hp and a different prop can make such a difference but I felt it for sure.

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For me it depends if I’m on an IFR approach to a fogged in runway with gusty winds over terrain (Arcata or little River) to minimums ,Than I’m Typically no where near 1.3 Vso when I break out on short final.This situation 5000 feels comfortable and 4000 requires moderate braking.VFR ,my comfort level drops to 3000 ...I could always use refresher with Don Kaye,but fact is long trip fatigue sets in and I’m not as good as practicing in the pattern

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, Hank said:

Why would anyone want to transition out of a C model? Unlike Anthony's, many Cs do perfectly well flying both IFR and IMC.

Adding almost 100 hp, a turbo, onboard oxygen and much more complicated avionics will reset you to Student Pilot mode. All of the speeds will be faster, from Stall to Cruise, and the downside of any mistake will be higher (just compare overhaul prices for Stupid Pilot Tricks . . . . ). The sight picture is very different in the long bodies, something like 5° nose up while parked. Compare fuel burn required to save that hour, then drive your wife on those routes once and she will appreciate all Mooneys!

If you do make the jump, be careful and hire a good CFII with lots of Bravo time, and fly together until you are comfortable.

And of course, we expect lots of pictures and writeups of the training, and your impression of the difference. We will need to see the smiling, happy wife inside the luxurious, spacious Bravo, too.  :P

I find myself in full agreement with you.  After talking to the little woman, it turns out she doesn’t want to be in the plane more than about two hours at a time anyway, so it’s just as easy to stop for lunch and continue on... The C Model is easy, fun, and plenty of air-lane for my current missions.  I’ll look at Ms when she’s wanting to do more long trips...

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On 10/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, Hank said:

Why would anyone want to transition out of a C model? Unlike Anthony's, many Cs do perfectly well flying both IFR and IMC.

Adding almost 100 hp, a turbo, onboard oxygen and much more complicated avionics will reset you to Student Pilot mode. All of the speeds will be faster, from Stall to Cruise, and the downside of any mistake will be higher (just compare overhaul prices for Stupid Pilot Tricks . . . . ). The sight picture is very different in the long bodies, something like 5° nose up while parked. Compare fuel burn required to save that hour, then drive your wife on those routes once and she will appreciate all Mooneys!

If you do make the jump, be careful and hire a good CFII with lots of Bravo time, and fly together until you are comfortable.

And of course, we expect lots of pictures and writeups of the training, and your impression of the difference. We will need to see the smiling, happy wife inside the luxurious, spacious Bravo, too.  :P

I find myself in full agreement with you.  After talking to the little woman, it turns out she doesn’t want to be in the plane more than about two hours at a time anyway, so it’s just as easy to stop for lunch and continue on... The C Model is easy, fun, and plenty of air-lane for my current missions.  I’ll look at Ms when she’s wanting to do more long trips...

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:53 AM, Bob_Belville said:

Bravo/Ovation owners: I wonder what you consider a minimum runway length in a long body? (I was looking at visiting Annapolis MD yesterday. Several airports with 2500' runways are more convenient than BFW. I'm fine with 2500' in my E.)  

I think id personally be fine taking the eagle into a 2000ft strip. Ive done oceano multiple times and as don said, it really is a non event.

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The speed is one thing...

Passenger comfort can be an added bonus...

My M20C was far from original condition... it was a bit beyond worn... more like raggedy....

Flying in a Long Body built 30 years later, with color screens, and door seals that work, and creature comforts like heat... and seats that support you, and adjust to your human frame.... and a mix-tape/iPod BT’d to the audio panel of her favorite tunes...

One is 65 VW... the other, 90s Cadillac... except that whole BT thing mentioned before...

If you are ready... go Long Body!  Your finance administrator will thank you...

If you want proof... for yourself, because I’m convinced already... See if you can schedule some transition training with a CFII who has a Bravo...

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy... yet... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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