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Annual service done without consent


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29 minutes ago, Clparker23 said:

Thank you guys for the comments. Ive taken something from each of your posts. I agree and disagree with all them to some point. First off plain and simple there was a break down in communication.

I haven’t been contacted yet that it’s complete so I don’t know what the final invoice will be. Windows prob $700, labor $700 so an additional $1400 roughly. If it was $200 I wouldn’t blink and pay the man. I still lean on the side of being the “paying customer” and a good business provides a service rendered. I asked for it to be annual’d. When I have to call about an elected service provided after a fellow pilot seeing it performed, that does not set well with me. I can moan and groan about it, well I am, but I was just curious were some of you guys draw the line.

I get it that there aren’t service providers such as a&p on every corner, and GA is a small community. I will need this guys help again in the near future, I know that. So it becomes a juggling act. The guy has been doing the annuals on this particular plane for 3-4 years, and hadn’t replaced that window then, but low and behold it gets done now.

And just to provide a little more back story, I had my Mooney annual’d by a very well known shop about a month ago, I got the list of actions to approve or disapprove. I elected not to do a few things on the list. When it was finished and final invoice sent, everything on the list was done...roughly $3k worth of extras. So, the 1 time I stop by were the Cessna is being worked on (hadn’t started annual yet, just had squawk list) I tell him about the Mooney annual. That I did not like what had happened there. And then this guy goes and does the same freaking thing. Anyway, I’m just a little frustrated at the moment both with the service provider for not doing something as simple as “ask” and myself for not checking on him.




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Slow learner?

Caveman method is taking hold to teach a lesson.

Empowered or victim.  It is a choice.

It takes action.

Or just keep having passive aggressive regret?

One way to go.

*Not an A&P, but I have trusted one with my and my families lives for sixteen years and counting...

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2 hours ago, Clparker23 said:

Thank you guys for the comments. Ive taken something from each of your posts. I agree and disagree with all them to some point. First off plain and simple there was a break down in communication.

I haven’t been contacted yet that it’s complete so I don’t know what the final invoice will be. Windows prob $700, labor $700 so an additional $1400 roughly. If it was $200 I wouldn’t blink and pay the man. I still lean on the side of being the “paying customer” and a good business provides a service rendered. I asked for it to be annual’d. When I have to call about an elected service provided after a fellow pilot seeing it performed, that does not set well with me. I can moan and groan about it, well I am, but I was just curious were some of you guys draw the line.

I get it that there aren’t service providers such as a&p on every corner, and GA is a small community. I will need this guys help again in the near future, I know that. So it becomes a juggling act. The guy has been doing the annuals on this particular plane for 3-4 years, and hadn’t replaced that window then, but low and behold it gets done now.

And just to provide a little more back story, I had my Mooney annual’d by a very well known shop about a month ago, I got the list of actions to approve or disapprove. I elected not to do a few things on the list. When it was finished and final invoice sent, everything on the list was done...roughly $3k worth of extras. So, the 1 time I stop by were the Cessna is being worked on (hadn’t started annual yet, just had squawk list) I tell him about the Mooney annual. That I did not like what had happened there. And then this guy goes and does the same freaking thing. Anyway, I’m just a little frustrated at the moment both with the service provider for not doing something as simple as “ask” and myself for not checking on him.

I don't think it would be unwise to contact him now.  It would be a chance for him to save face ("I know I didn't explicitly say all work needs to be approved by me beforehand, but I'll say it now), but it would also prevent additional sticker shock if he was planning on addressing some other unrequested squawks.  If he digs his heels in and still wants carte blanche, you could press him on requiring estimates in writing for all work and parts before you are willing to approve them.

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I had an AME taking his sweet time finishing (well, STARTING and finishing) my first Annual. I started looking elsewhere. And I asked for options.

I ended up finding an option, and ran it by the AME who did the prebuy on the aircraft. His exact worlds were:

”get the contract price for the annual in writing, then write in the contract ‘any additional work performed beyond this contract will not be performed, unless approved in writing’ “

I ended up not using that AME, however I’ve used this writing in several other situations with my truck, trailer etc. 

The lesson has certainly saved a few bucks along the way, as all you need to do is “show me where I approved this”, and you’re done. 

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1 hour ago, GLJA said:

I had an AME taking his sweet time finishing (well, STARTING and finishing) my first Annual. I started looking elsewhere. And I asked for options.

I ended up finding an option, and ran it by the AME who did the prebuy on the aircraft. His exact worlds were:

”get the contract price for the annual in writing, then write in the contract ‘any additional work performed beyond this contract will not be performed, unless approved in writing’ “

I ended up not using that AME, however I’ve used this writing in several other situations with my truck, trailer etc. 

The lesson has certainly saved a few bucks along the way, as all you need to do is “show me where I approved this”, and you’re done. 

I have that in big bold letters on the front page of my working logbook.  I give that to anyone working on the plane (as well as telling them that verbally).  The idea should apply to any repair work, not just the annual inspection.

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On 10/14/2019 at 7:32 AM, EricJ said:

I think this is just more evidence of why owner-assisted annuals are a good idea.   Not everybody can do it due to work, etc., but if you can it makes it a lot easier to avoid this kind of thing.

 

Its been a good 15 year since anyone has touched my plane without me being there. It took a number of bad experiences from a number of places before I realized this was far safer as well as cheaper.

 

-Robert

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My local FBO has a flat rate for annuals by model.  They complete the inspection process first, before performing the maintenance functions of the annual, and provide a squawk list of items found with an estimate for each segment of repair.  They are listed under two categories, airworthiness items and non-airworthiness items.  You pick and choose what gets repaired and know the cost estimate before making your decision.  They rarely will run more but, if unforeseen issues pop up, they will advise before moving forward with an adjusted estimate as well.

Although I do most my own maintenance, I am the chairman for our maintenance committee for our airlifeline planes.  This relationship has worked amazingly well over the years and rarely do I ever get a surprise AFTER THE REPAIR.  There's been some "gulp" moments before approving the work, but the shop is outstanding in keeping their customers informed BEFORE dropping an unexpected final invoice on you after the plane is signed off.  

This is how my dealership works as well.  Very few surprises at final billing time.  We bill over $100,000 a month in labor sales (this does not include parts on those service invoices, this is pure labor sales).  Good shops keep their customers informed so they will come back!  This policy also avoids the dispute at completion.  There's nothing worse than "let's make a deal" once we have all the labor and parts invested in a job because the customer is getting a surprise with his final bill. 

Tom

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1 hour ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

My local FBO has a flat rate for annuals by model.  They complete the inspection process first, before performing the maintenance functions of the annual, and provide a squawk list of items found with an estimate for each segment of repair.  They are listed under two categories, airworthiness items and non-airworthiness items.  You pick and choose what gets repaired and know the cost estimate before making your decision.  They rarely will run more but, if unforeseen issues pop up, they will advise before moving forward with an adjusted estimate as well.

This how it should be, I've watched/seen shops call multiple times to get approval/order parts and it just drags out. When I had my shop (not aviation) my customers pretty much knew what their bill would be when they dropped it off and generally it was a few bucks cheaper when the dust settled. Also after the Repair Order was written (computer) 2 copies where printed and they signed our copy to authorize the work, very few disputes over the amount in 35+ years

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I would like to know why, if this A&P had done the previous 3 or 4 annuals, did he not replace the windows until now?  What exactly was the condition of the rest of the windows prior to the ferry flight?  You saw them yourself.

Also, I have to wonder if the ferry pilot mentioned something about the windows and the mechanic took that as authorization.

Anyway, I have always felt that replacing windows is a big deal and it’s nonsensical that the mechanic thought it would be ok to do that without first discussing it with the owner.  If the windows were leaking with obvious water damage and needed to be resealed, maybe that would mitigate things.   However lacking some other strong reason for replacement, windows -can- be buffed with a polisher to some extent and many scratches removed.

We made a decision to replace our existing windshield with a new one-piece windshield, it cost a lot of money.  I know a C-140 isn’t a Mooney but to me it’s a real invasive procedure that I would’ve gone berserk over had it been done without authorization.   There better be a good story to go along with it.  

If it desperately needed new windows that’s one thing, you’re better off now even if you hadn't planned for it.  However, if they were acceptable when the plane was delivered that’s completely different.   

Maybe you’ll discover it has new seats and interior when you get there??

 

Edited by Aviationinfo
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