Wheelbarrowing on take off?

[PT20J]

Assuming proper rig, I've found Bob Kromer's takeoff method to work best: Apply about 5 lb back pressure at the beginning of the takeoff roll and hold that until if flies off. After it lifts off, slowly release the back pressure as it pitches up an additional five degrees and hold that attitude. If you had the trim just right, it won't need an adjustment until you raise the flaps. Experiment with the takeoff trim setting at various loadings until you get it right.

You really don't need to "rotate" a piston airplane and it's usually not the best way to perform the takeoff maneuver. V_R is really a jet thing. But jets have a lot more thrust and require a lot more pitch change to get into the climb attitude. A lot of factors go into calculating V_R  but the key one is that the airplane has to begin rotation at V_R and accelerate to V₂ by 35 feet AGL. None of that really applies to us.

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[corn_flake]

I went out and tried both method.  

1. set the trim to more nose up position when the aircraft is lightly loaded 

2. Set the trim as suggested in POH, but apply slight back pressure on the elevator.  As soon as the nose wheel is off the ground, the main will follow.  At which point, back pressure is released on the elevator.  

both methods worked well.  But, I think I prefer #2 since my Mooney will climb out at a nice 750 fpm without additional trim changes as soon as the 15 degree flap is retracted.  

Thank you all!!

Now, let's talk about let down procedures...  I'll start another thread! 

[Hank]

8 hours ago, corn_flake said:

Now, let's talk about let down procedures...  I'll start another thread! 

That's the easy part! Push the yoke for 500 fpm, trim for hands off and come on down.

Every now and then I will reduce throttle back to my cruise MP, and push the mixture forward to also maintain cruise EGT. Nothing else to it. This brings me down just below the top of the green arc.

[Yetti]

9 hours ago, corn_flake said:

I went out and tried both method.  

1. set the trim to more nose up position when the aircraft is lightly loaded 

2. Set the trim as suggested in POH, but apply slight back pressure on the elevator.  As soon as the nose wheel is off the ground, the main will follow.  At which point, back pressure is released on the elevator.  

both methods worked well.  But, I think I prefer #2 since my Mooney will climb out at a nice 750 fpm without additional trim changes as soon as the 15 degree flap is retracted.  

Thank you all!!

Now, let's talk about let down procedures...  I'll start another thread! 

There is also the trick of Gear comes up about 20 feet up.  Then slightly push down a bit Not level flight but slightly nose up.  Let the speed build get the wing flying.   Then nose up to say 100mph climb.    This is more about nuances about flying the plane than some numbers.   It happens really quick.   feel the plane.

 

Point the nose down.  depending on your red line, you won't be able to just fly down like those with higher never exceed.   Pull the thottle back.  Don't touch anythings else.

15 MP in the pattern.   Should slow down.   Gear down at threshold.   use flaps as needed to make your approach.   80% of my landings are half flaps.   If I am high or with obstacles and need a more steep approach, I will be full flaps.

 

[RobertGary1]

As a taildragger pilot it never really occurred to me to take off without the yoke back.

 

-Robert

[Yetti]

22 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

As a taildragger pilot it never really occurred to me to take off without the yoke back.

 

-Robert

Speaking of that we should go ahead and warn the OP about checking the trim.   Forget to reset it after landing and you are at risk of departure stall.   You will only forget about it twice before it is seared into your brain.

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Speaking of that we should go ahead and warn the OP about checking the trim.   Forget to reset it after landing and you are at risk of departure stall.   You will only forget about it twice before it is seared into your brain.

I've never done that 

[Yetti]

1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

I've never done that 

I was telling the story from my "friends" perspective.   More third person you might say.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

Speaking of that we should go ahead and warn the OP about checking the trim.   Forget to reset it after landing and you are at risk of departure stall.   You will only forget about it twice before it is seared into your brain.

Hardheaded snowy critter! I learnt all about that the FIRST time!!

[corn_flake]

I'm the OP and I can tell you I have never try to take off with landing trim and flap.    All it took was watching someone else does it once to remember not to ever do that.  

On the other hand, I did try to descent in a 2006 Cesnna with AP altitude hold engaged.  It took me few seconds to figure out why my aircraft was pitching nose up at cruising altitude while falling 500 feet per minute.  

[Yetti]

On 10/16/2019 at 7:30 PM, Hank said:

Hardheaded snowy critter! I learnt all about that the FIRST time!!

We are known for our stealthy abilities, not our life lessons learning ability