LASAR is without power and internet for 5 days (10/9)

[FloridaMan]

You can’t seize power unless there’s a crisis. Those who learn from history are doomed to watch the masses repeat it. 

[ilovecornfields]

PG&E CEO: We Hear the Anger, are Working Hard to Avoid Power Shut-Offs 

OpEd by Bill Johnson, CEO and President, PG&E Corporation as it appeared in the San Francisco ChronicleOctober 17, 2019

Turning off power is not how PG&E wants to serve our customers. That’s not what our company is about, nor what any of us came here to do.

Electric service is fundamental in modern life, and we have always taken great pride in providing that service.

But here’s where we stand today: More than half of PG&E’s 70,000-square-mile service area in Northern and Central California is considered by state officials to be at high risk of wildfire.

In 2012, that designation applied to just 15% of our service area.

The speed at which our landscape has become a tinderbox is unnerving. It’s now home to 129 million dead, dying and diseased trees.

In this environment, the dry, severe winds that rise from the east during this time of year compound the risk for wildfire. Any spark can touch off a catastrophe.

When those conditions arrived last week, we made the tough decision to turn off large parts of our electric system. We did that for one reason: to keep our customers safe.

Our decision achieved that purpose. We did not have a catastrophic wildfire in our service area.

We did see damage to our system because of the wind. When we patrolled all 25,000 miles of lines that we turned off, we found more than 100 confirmed cases of wind-related damage — including trees into power lines and downed power lines.

Had we not shut off power, this type of damage could have sparked a fire. In fact, vegetation contacting lines was the very cause of a number of fires in the North Bay two years ago.

We hear the anger about how disruptive it is to live without power. Losing service was a hardship for our customers, whom we do not want to disappoint, and it brings its own safety concerns with it. It also comes on the heels of tragedies in recent years that have eroded public trust in PG&E. We recognize this.

But as we evaluated the science about the conditions and the risk — in consultation with numerous state agencies — we believed this was the right thing to do for public safety. And we still do.

Can we get better at these types of power shut-offs going forward? Yes, absolutely, and we will.

Our communication channels were insufficient. Millions of people needed information immediately, and our website and call centers did not fully meet that challenge. We are working to fix that.

We’re working to improve coordination with state and local government agency partners.

We’re also intent on narrowing the scope of these types of safety outages, so that we don’t have to disconnect such a large number of customers.

In other words, we want to do this the best way we can and get everyone back to normal as quickly as possible.

Beyond these improvements, we’re working hard to make these shut-offs unnecessary. In the months and years ahead, PG&E will continue hardening the electric grid with stronger poles and lines, putting power lines underground in certain areas, and adding new technology that improves weather forecasting and real-time monitoring. We are moving as quickly as we can on these fronts.

We also completed an unprecedented inspection of our electric infrastructure earlier this year, and repaired any items needing immediate attention. We shared these results with the public and our regulator.

But, even as we do these things, we must also ask the people and communities we serve to prepare for more safety shut-offs, should similar weather conditions occur again, as well as other emergencies and natural disasters.

None of us wants a future where safety shut-offs are commonplace, or even imaginable. But our intent is to show our customers that PG&E will always act with their safety foremost in our decision-making, no matter how difficult that action may be.

[Yetti]

On 10/16/2019 at 4:50 PM, RobertGary1 said:

 

A lot of people are calling for the state to take over the power grid and I think this is an means to that end. You can make it impossible for a company to do it.

-Robert

Which solves what?  CA was one of the first elec markets to deregulate.  So now having the government running the generation and transmission would be 1000 steps backwards.   Show me where the government would do a better job.  Also it would make Jeff Skilling's statement come true.  "We will never own assets in CA because we believe the state will nationalize them one day"

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Which solves what?  CA was one of the first elec markets to deregulate.  So now having the government running the generation and transmission would be 1000 steps backwards.   Show me where the government would do a better job.  Also it would make Jeff Skilling's statement come true.  "We will never own assets in CA because we believe the state will nationalize them one day"

Apropos to the topic of aviation, I'd point out that the FAA and NTSB together have produced a safety culture in commercial aviation that has no parallel in the private sector.  This week there was a regional jet that slid off the runway and killed one person.  He was only the second person in 10 years to be killed in an accident on a scheduled US flight.  I recall when the discussion to privatize ATC came up, few here were on that bandwagon, and the AOPA certainly isn't.

Compare that to health care, where human error contributes to or causes 250,000 deaths per year, and where arguments about privatization and socialism go back and forth ad nauseum?  One thing that seems clear to me about human nature--when you need to produce a safety culture, the government must be involved.  Efforts to produce that culture in health care through private errors  efforts (wow, that was a Freudian slip) have not demonstrated anywhere near the level of success that we have seen in commercial aviation.

If the power utility industry needs to develop a safety culture, I don't think it will happen without some type of state intervention.  The public outcry will not be sufficient, and they will simply pass the costs of lawsuits to their customers because that's the way capitalism works.  Oh, that's right, it's not capitalism because there's no competition... 

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

 This week there was a regional jet that slid off the runway and killed one person.  He was only the second person in 10 years to be killed in an accident on a scheduled US flight. 

What?!? I didn't hear about that! Must not have been entertaining enough for the evening talking heads to mention . . . . Can you provide details / links?

On topic, government is already involved in all Public Utilities. Their approval is required for service areas, rate changes, customer complaints. Applies to all utilities--electricity, water, phone, internet, natural gas . . . .

[Yetti]

I respond to your three paragraphs with two words.  Veterans Administration.

[EricJ]

31 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I respond to your three paragraphs with two words.  Veterans Administration.

Enron. 

 

[GeeBee]

2 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Apropos to the topic of aviation, I'd point out that the FAA and NTSB together have produced a safety culture in commercial aviation that has no parallel in the private sector.  This week there was a regional jet that slid off the runway and killed one person.  He was only the second person in 10 years to be killed in an accident on a scheduled US flight.  I recall when the discussion to privatize ATC came up, few here were on that bandwagon, and the AOPA certainly isn't.

Compare that to health care, where human error contributes to or causes 250,000 deaths per year, and where arguments about privatization and socialism go back and forth ad nauseum?  One thing that seems clear to me about human nature--when you need to produce a safety culture, the government must be involved.  Efforts to produce that culture in health care through private errors  efforts (wow, that was a Freudian slip) have not demonstrated anywhere near the level of success that we have seen in commercial aviation.

If the power utility industry needs to develop a safety culture, I don't think it will happen without some type of state intervention.  The public outcry will not be sufficient, and they will simply pass the costs of lawsuits to their customers because that's the way capitalism works.  Oh, that's right, it's not capitalism because there's no competition... 

There is a difference between regulation.....and operation. The FAA and the NTSB does not operate the airlines, they regulate them. Nor is that regulation perfect. All one has to do is look at the innovation coming out of EASA vs the FAA. Do I have to remind you how long it took for the FAA finally admit that actually a second attitude indicator powered off a different source would actually be better than requiring a T&B? Or that TCAS would be the best anti collision system? That is just a few examples. Finally I would remind you that PG&E is in this fix precisely because the state and the state PUC has failed both in insuring ROI on the grid AND maintenance of the forest areas under their control. IOW, where the state has had operational control they failed. Nothing in the history of State of California operational control suggest they could operate a grid successfully. 

[bonal]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis 

not sure if this link will open but this is a pretty good indication of what happens when govt tries to make things better. It also was where PGE's problems really began. Prior to this PGE was considered one of the leaders in the industry and had a very high public customer satisfaction and approval.  Before the so called de regulation PG&E was able to operate as it needed and the only real regulations were the amount of money it could bring in as revenue and that was determined in the once every three year rate case hearings with the CPUC. Back in the day PG&E leadership was comprised of people that had a long history within the company. Now it imports its leaders from outside the last to go was Giesha Williams who came from Florida and made a real mess of things at PGE. 

as I said in an earlier comment the rank and file are as frustrated as the customers they serve.

Edited October 19, 2019 by bonal

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

What?!? I didn't hear about that! Must not have been entertaining enough for the evening talking heads to mention . . . . Can you provide details / links?

On topic, government is already involved in all Public Utilities. Their approval is required for service areas, rate changes, customer complaints. Applies to all utilities--electricity, water, phone, internet, natural gas . . . .

Here you go:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/18/us/alaska-plane-crash/index.html

[FloridaMan]

5 hours ago, Yetti said:

Which solves what?  CA was one of the first elec markets to deregulate.  So now having the government running the generation and transmission would be 1000 steps backwards.   Show me where the government would do a better job.  Also it would make Jeff Skilling's statement come true.  "We will never own assets in CA because we believe the state will nationalize them one day"

Who is John Galt?

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, EricJ said:

Enron. 

 

I call with Sarbanes Oxley 2008 Salamon Brothers Special Purpose Vehicles ie Off company balance sheet deals.  

Edited October 19, 2019 by Yetti

[FloridaMan]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I call with Sarbanes Oxley 2008 Salamon Brothers Off company balance sheet deals.  

On a related note: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/01/magazine/remington-guns-jobs-huntsville.html 

I’m still trying to figure out what to do for when the chickens come home to roost. 

[laytonl]

With over 40 years of experience in the electric utility industry, I read this thread with great interest.  A few more comments about ROWs.  Most utilities do not own the rights of way under their lines or have easements to re-clear.  Also, many times it is state and federal agencies that prohibit trimming on government owned land. Can’t win.

@bonal what do think about Bill Johnson as the new CEO?  Turmoil seems to follow him around from the Duke-Progress Merger to his time at TVA.

 

Sorry, this is all unrelated to aviation, but I’ve enjoyed the discourse.

 

lee

 

[Andy95W]

11 hours ago, Yetti said:

I respond to your three paragraphs with two words.  Veterans Administration.

I don't currently qualify for VA health care benefits because I have private health insurance, but it's nice to have that as a safety net just in case.  I do know many people, including family members, who use their benefits who receive very good medical care.  Perhaps not gold-standard, but quite good.  The negative stories in the press seem to give people the impression that the VA is universally bad, which it isn't. 

Is there mismanagement, fraud, and waste? Yes.  I'm not sure how to remove mismanagement from any government run system when too often the jobs become a sinecure for employees.  But the fraud and waste, just like with Medicare, seems to be at the hands of unscrupulous private sector medical providers.

[Andy95W]

8 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

Who is John Galt?

It's easy to like Ayn Rand.  Her writings appeal to all of our baser ideas and emotions.

And I agree with opposing collectivism and communism.  But she also opposed altruism, which is at least a little un-American and quite definitely un-Christian.

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, laytonl said:

Sorry, this is all unrelated to aviation, but I’ve enjoyed the discourse.

lee

 

+1

[JohnB]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:13 PM, bonal said:

I'd be more worried about the up coming closure of Lampson for re surfacing the contractor is still trying to get the asphalt to pass FAA requirements and we can't get a solid date on when they are going to shut it down.

That too! And the double worry about what would happen if a fire started to approach AND the airport were down! Either way.. looks like hopefully ill get her back Monday before the actual shutdown. (fingers crossed)

On 10/16/2019 at 9:21 PM, bonal said:

After this latest power shut down there was over 100 locations documented where damaged equipment was found in the post inspections. No one knows for sure if they might have sparked a fire but the fact is there was no fire. However, Sothern cal Edison is being blamed for a fire from a transmission line that was not de energized during this same red flag event. I think that one hit 10,000 acres which sadly around these parts isn't that big.

Yes. I still would support shutting the lines down in high winds. Its gotta be tough for a CEO. Thanks @ilovecornfields for the CEOs statement, that's got to be a tough job. If you shut the lines down, you get angry customers, if you don't shut the lines down and there's a major fire and lines are blamed, you get angry customers with burned properties.

[Yetti]

I only dabble in power.  Mostly natural gas pipelines.  I think all pipelines are stuck in the 1990s technology wise. Worked for pipeline  that was attached to an electric utilty an the electric people thought the pipeline was way too progressive.  ROW incursions are a universal problem.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Yetti

[GeeBee]

Where I live, the electric utility has the legal right to clear the right of way even drop lines to a house. Last week the utility came through and cleared tree branches from the lines and they do it with specialized and very efficient equipment. I can point to a pine tree on the ground that the utility dropped because they said it was dying and a threat to the line. I live in one of the most heavily forested areas of the country and we do not hesitate to protect the lines. When an ice storm comes along, if you have not cleared the branches and dying trees they will fall on the lines. It is no different problem than CA except one place has the will to establish legal basis to clear the right of way and the other does not.

As for CA running the grid, they can't even build a train line. Run a huge grid...really?

[EricJ]

9 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Is there mismanagement, fraud, and waste? Yes.  I'm not sure how to remove mismanagement from any government run system when too often the jobs become a sinecure for employees.  But the fraud and waste, just like with Medicare, seems to be at the hands of unscrupulous private sector medical providers.

As you mention, fraud and waste happens in the private sector, too.   There are probably more examples of it there than in the gov't, but people are more tolerant of it in the private sector, plus it doesn't provide any political ammo there.   

[Sandman993]

Pretty easy fix... stop listening to the tree hugging liberals and clear the easements, then take steps to use spacers and airfoils to keep the lines from touching during high wind events.

Or just build it right the first time. 
 

Their retail power cost is 2 or 3x more than where I live. Where does does all the money go? 

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

As you mention, fraud and waste happens in the private sector, too.   There are probably more examples of it there than in the gov't, but people are more tolerant of it in the private sector, plus it doesn't provide any political ammo there.   

No, the difference is, it is not your money. Fraud waste and abuse in the public sector is my and your money. How someone in the private sector wishes to waste their money is their business and business is usually very cruel to those who do waste money.

 

 

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

No, the difference is, it is not your money. Fraud waste and abuse in the public sector is my and your money. How someone in the private sector wishes to waste their money is their business and business is usually very cruel to those who do waste money.

Never been ripped off by a private business?   Didn't have your power shut off by Enron?   Didn't lose any of your retirement fund to Enron or Worldcom or Lehman Brothers or...?

It's definitely your money when it happens to you.

Edited October 20, 2019 by EricJ

[GeeBee]

I have in fact lost 2 million in pension assets to a bankruptcy. However, I chose to continue employment with a sinking company. In the private sector all transactions, regardless if you are creditor or customer are at will. No such status exists for the public sector. Try telling them you are at will and don’t wish to participate any more and you will find men with guns on your doorstep telling you to participate or be Wesley Snipe’s cell mate.