B-17 Crashed and burned at Hartford, 2 dead, :(

[MooneyMitch]

“ I probably skirt death more often by flying my vintage M20D”

Are you being anecdotal?  You’re scaring me ...... I’ve got one of those (M20D, converted to C).

Expound please! 

I should add, my post is meant as tongue in cheek only!! 

[tigers2007]

Hey many of probably do. We don't have the support system like they do (besides Mooneyspace of course!).

[MooneyMitch]

And then there's some common sense and logic provided by EAA's Dick Knapinski, on the truth and reality beyond the sensationalism and over reaction to it all.............

 

By JENNIFER McDERMOTT, Associated Press

The roar of its four engines, the plexiglass nose, the bristling machine guns — for history buffs and aviation enthusiasts, few thrills compare with that of a flight aboard aircraft like the B-17 Flying Fortress, the World War II bomber that helped smash the Nazi war machine.

"It made you feel like you were back in the 1940s," said commercial pilot Gloria Bouillon, who rode one last month and called it the best flight of her life. "They had it set up just like it would be if it was on a mission. You could put your head out of the hatch. It was windy. It was noisy. You could smell the fuel. It was much different from a flight now."

But a deadly crash in Connecticut this week of the very same B-17 has cast a pall over the band of brothers — and sisters — who enjoy riding in vintage planes and raised questions of whether machinery over 70 years old should be flying passengers.

The propeller-driven 1945 bomber went down at the Hartford airport on Wednesday, killing seven of the 13 people aboard, after the pilot reported engine trouble on takeoff. The cause of the fiery wreck is under investigation.

Arthur Alan Wolk, a lawyer who specializes in crash litigation in Philadelphia, said Friday that the accident shows the risks associated with flying old planes: They break. He said the rules for operating vintage aircraft are stringent, but he questioned whether compliance and training are adequate.

"The engines are old with no new parts being manufactured for decades," he wrote in a blog post. "Even in service these aircraft needed the resources of a government to keep them flying. The aircraft and engines were never intended to last this long so intense maintenance and inspections are vital to continued safety."

Since 1982, the National Transportation Safety Board has investigated 21 accidents involving World War II-era bombers. They resulted in 23 deaths. Three of the accidents involved B-17Gs, not counting the one that crashed Wednesday.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., asked that the NTSB during its investigation of the Connecticut accident look at the inspection and maintenance requirements on vintage planes and whether they need to be more rigorous.

A Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman said that if an issue is discovered during the investigation that might apply to the fleet, the agency will take appropriate action.

Vintage planes need to be certified as airworthy by the FAA and are subject to periodic inspections. Owners can obtain an FAA "living history flight exemption" to offer flights to paying customers, but they must comply with extra federal requirements for safety and maintenance.

"I would not have any hesitation about flying in these aircraft," said Dick Knapinski, a spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, an organization of aviation enthusiasts and airplane restorers. The association flies one of the few remaining B-17s.

Its B-17 will visit Hyannis, Massachusetts, this weekend but will not offer passenger flights out of respect for those connected to the tragedy, Knapinski said.

The Connecticut crash reduces to nine the number of B-17s actively flying, according to the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force, near Dayton, Ohio.

The one that went down was owned by the Collings Foundation, an educational group in Massachusetts that brought its Wings of Freedom vintage aircraft display to the Hartford airport this week. It was FAA-certified through November 2022. The foundation said Friday it would suspend flights for the rest of the year in the wake of the crash.

The pilot, 75-year-old Ernest McCauley, of Long Beach, California, had more than 7,000 hours of experience flying a B-17. He was killed in the crash.

Unlike commercial airline pilots, who must retire at 65, pilots of vintage aircraft can keep flying as long as their medical certificate, training and testing are current.

Knapinski dismissed concerns that the knowledge and equipment needed to keep World War II-vintage planes flying are dwindling, saying that pilots and mechanics are trained to a high standard, and that original parts or new ones manufactured to the same specifications are available.

The B-17 is one of the most celebrated warplanes in U.S. history, used to conduct near-suicidal daylight raids against German industrial sites at a terrible cost in allied lives. About 12,000 B-17s were built during the war, and roughly a third were lost in combat, while others were scrapped afterward, Knapinski said.

"Airplanes are built to fly. When you see them in museums, it's not the same as experiencing them at your local airport, in your community," he said. "The tragedy notwithstanding, we hope to be doing this for a very long time."

Bouillon, manager of Beverly Regional Airport north of Boston, was stunned to hear of the crash involving the same plane she rode in mid-September.

"I took a breath and said that could have been me," she said. "You pause and you're grateful that you're still breathing."

___

Associated Press writers David Sharp in Portland, Maine, Dave Collins in Hartford, Connecticut, and Mark Pratt in Boston contributed to this report.

___

This story has been updated to trim a quote to delete an erroneous statement that no one alive ever flew or maintained a B-17 in service

[Shadrach]

20 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Arthur Alan Wolk, a lawyer who specializes in crash litigation in Philadelphia, said Friday that the accident shows the risks associated with flying old planes: They break. He said the rules for operating vintage aircraft are stringent, but he questioned whether compliance and training are adequate.

Translation: I know nothing about this accident beyond what’s in the media.  I have know idea what caused the failure and if the failure could have been mitigated by the pilot’s control inputs. I will not qualify any of my statements with anything that approaches an informed response but I want to make sure that I list as many pathways to liability as possible rather than wait for the investigation to conclude.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Shadrach

[aviatoreb]

As I read about this awful accident.

i am reminded of another horrible but less famous accident that happened Friday morning here in st Lawrence county and covered in the local paper.  A grad student / assistant coach (work study) ran a stop sign (accident) and hit another car and that other car rolled several times and a young girl on her way to elementary school lost her life and her brother driving had significant injuries but thankfull will survive.  The student coach had minor physical injuries and heavy injuries deeper inside.

whats the point of this?  I don’t know.  But I read of a tragedy far away and a tragedy closer to home (I know that coach a little bit and I spoke with him last Sunday at a race as I was racing a double scull with the head coach).  Nothing is safe and we can’t legislate that away.

Let’s just say I am blue - thinking of the Hartford crash and the local crash.  Life is fragile and too short.

[flyboy0681]

Let's not lose sight that the paying passengers knew of the risks involved. Exactly a year ago this month I paid for an hour flight on a restored American Airlines DC-3. Although I had the time of my life, the risk was very much in the front of my mind even before arriving at the airport. It really hit home when I was required to sign a multi-page release form before being handed my ticket. The release was filled with a lot of scary words.

Would I do it again? Probably.

[gsxrpilot]

There are plenty of ways to die prematurely. This one is so vanishingly remote as to not even warrant a mention. I wouldn't hesitate to take a ride in a WW2 era warbird today. Even if the pilot was 75 years old.

It's certainly a sad situation for all those involved. But do changes need to be made? I don't think so.

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW, I was offered a free ride in that airplane 2 months ago, but I couldn’t get down to claim it. A friend of mine flew one of their pilots to pick up his airplane and they offered him a ride in exchange. He offered to give it to me.

[Browncbr1]

That plane was at My home drone a couple weeks ago.   Loss of life is sad

Edited October 6, 2019 by Browncbr1