G5 installation cost

[airwheels]

I'm considering having dual G5s installed on my 1980 M20J.  The plane has a Garmin 430 non-WAAS and KX170B as the #2 Nav/com...  

What is a reasonable price to pay for installation of the 2 G5s?

Can anyone recommend an avionics shop in the Midwest that does quality work at reasonable rates?

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated!

 

 

[carusoam]

Congrats on your first post, airwheels...

And good morning... 

Stand by for somebody awake in your part of the Mooney world...

While you are hanging out...

Try the search function.  The G5 has enough posted about it, you can probably find what you are looking for.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[NotarPilot]

I’ll weigh in. I paid about $800 to have a single AI G5 installed about 3 years ago now. The guy I used here in CA was very fair and reasonable.  I asked about installing a second G5 to replace the HSI and he said that would be more involved being that there’s a bit more to it.  Figure in the installation of the magnetometer, the wiring associated, etc and you’re probably looking at $1500 on the low end to maybe $2000 on the higher end.  Again, this is just for pure installation costs and does not include the cost of the equipment. 

I should add the the shop I used, High Desert Avionics, is a small family run business with minimal overhead compared to the bigger shops so I think that’s part of where you see the savings. They have plenty of satisfied customers. Too bad yours in the Midwest.  I hope this helps.

[moontownMooney]

I believe Lafayette Avionics has a decent reputation and excellent prices. As such I think they are booked past next summer...

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[mooneyflyfast]

What autopilot do you have?

[airwheels]

I have a Century 21.  Despite having the C21 computer and servo overhauled, it is NOT working.  I'm told the DG and AI need to be replaced...that's why I'm considering the install of the (2) Garmin G5s.

[Bob - S50]

When we were going to do something similar, we were bid a bit over $10,000 to remove our KFC200 and install dual G5's flush mounted.

[bradp]

It’s like 8-10 hrs for an AI G5. 

Can be upwards of 20 hrs labor for the HSI.  It requires fabricating mounts, wiring runs, can involve soldering shunt circuits for legacy autopilot, minor panel surgery etc etc.  

[mooneyflyfast]

The G5 will not work with your autopilot as an artificial horizon.  It can be made to work with your AP as a DG or HSI with an adapter.  There is speculation that Garmin may make the G5 compatible with analog autopilots as a AH at some point but not so far. I'm in the same boat with my KFC200 AP.

[Vno]

In Feb 2018 I had installed (2) G5 units, GAD 29B, and GMU 11. Around $9K. All four boxes, Basic installation, no flush mount is in that price. It is fully coupled to the Garmin 530W and KAP 150 Autopilot. I kept the KI 256 attitude indicator as a backup (actually its primary). Crystal Avionics - New Braunfels, TX.

Brian

Edited September 24, 2019 by Vno
Added content

[Ragsf15e]

6 hours ago, Vno said:

In Feb 2018 I had installed (2) G5 units, GAD 29B, and GMU 11. Around $9K. All four boxes, Basic installation, no flush mount is in that price. It is fully coupled to the Garmin 530W and KAP 150 Autopilot. I kept the KI 256 attitude indicator as a backup (actually its primary).

Brian

I just got a quote for 2xG5s, hooked up to 430W, stec30.  Non flush mount.  Quote includes removing kcs55a hsi, magnameter, wires, etc, removing backup vac system, and some minor panel surgery to make panel look ok with removed parts (stec gpss, standby vac, vac gage, etc).  Quote includes G5s, 35 hours labor, wa tax -$11700.  Shop is an FAA repair center and avionics shop, garmin dealer. Booked out into the spring.

[gacoon]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I just got a quote for 2xG5s, hooked up to 430W, stec30.  Non flush mount.  Quote includes removing kcs55a hsi, magnameter, wires, etc, removing backup vac system, and some minor panel surgery to make panel look ok with removed parts (stec gpss, standby vac, vac gage, etc).  Quote includes G5s, 35 hours labor, wa tax -$11700.  Shop is an FAA repair center and avionics shop, garmin dealer. Booked out into the spring.

Which shop?  

[Vno]

6 hours ago, gacoon said:

Which shop?  

Sorry. I edited it above too. Crystal Avionics - New Braunfels, TX

[Bob - S50]

10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I just got a quote for 2xG5s, hooked up to 430W, stec30.  Non flush mount.  Quote includes removing kcs55a hsi, magnameter, wires, etc, removing backup vac system, and some minor panel surgery to make panel look ok with removed parts (stec gpss, standby vac, vac gage, etc).  Quote includes G5s, 35 hours labor, wa tax -$11700.  Shop is an FAA repair center and avionics shop, garmin dealer. Booked out into the spring.

Call Gary at Spencer Aircraft Supply at KPLU and get a quote.  253-848-9349.  That's where we are having ours done.  I think he is only booked 2 or 3 months out and he might be a bit cheaper.

Edit:  Just noticed the bit about taking out the vacuum system.  Gary won't do that part, you'll have to get a local mechanic to do that.

[Gagarin]

What is the advantage of the G5 over traditional gyros? After all the traditional gyros are easier to read as shown on the picture and the factory engine instruments are easier to read than those on integrated electronic displays. I may sound old fashion but it is a reality, just look at instrument panel pictures with both electronic displays and old steam gauges and you will notice that you can read altitude and airspeed on the old gauges but not on the electronic displays.  

[ArtVandelay]

It’s all what you are used to, the information is there, in condensed format, I did my PP with steam and my IR with G1000, so I’m comfortable with either.


Tom

[EricJ]

7 hours ago, Gagarin said:

What is the advantage of the G5 over traditional gyros? After all the traditional gyros are easier to read as shown on the picture and the factory engine instruments are easier to read than those on integrated electronic displays. I may sound old fashion but it is a reality, just look at instrument panel pictures with both electronic displays and old steam gauges and you will notice that you can read altitude and airspeed on the old gauges but not on the electronic displays.  

I installed a G5 and an EDM 900 digital engine monitor about a year ago.   I find both of them far easier and more efficient to read than the gauges they replaced.   Definitely an improvement.

[Ragsf15e]

12 hours ago, Gagarin said:

What is the advantage of the G5 over traditional gyros? After all the traditional gyros are easier to read as shown on the picture and the factory engine instruments are easier to read than those on integrated electronic displays. I may sound old fashion but it is a reality, just look at instrument panel pictures with both electronic displays and old steam gauges and you will notice that you can read altitude and airspeed on the old gauges but not on the electronic displays.  

The vacuum system is not that reliable, especially compared to 2xAHRS with 4 hour batteries.  Honestly, I think the vacuum system is dangerous compared to modern digital attitude displays.  Reading them is a learned skill as they pack a lot more information into a small space.  I already have digital engine instruments and definitely would not go back.

[Ragsf15e]

 

21 hours ago, gacoon said:

Which shop?  

Western Aviation in Spokane WA

[Gagarin]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

The vacuum system is not that reliable, especially compared to 2xAHRS with 4 hour batteries.  Honestly, I think the vacuum system is dangerous compared to modern digital attitude displays.  Reading them is a learned skill as they pack a lot more information into a small space.  I already have digital engine instruments and definitely would not go back.

But notice that the electronic displays require backups while the steam gauges do not. A traditional altimeter, airspeed indicator, VSI and compass are pretty reliable and do not require power to work. And a simple turn coordinator will keep you level in case of vac pump failure.

[EricJ]

13 minutes ago, Gagarin said:

But notice that the electronic displays require backups while the steam gauges do not. A traditional altimeter, airspeed indicator, VSI and compass are pretty reliable and do not require power to work. And a simple turn coordinator will keep you level in case of vac pump failure.

No more so than the vacuum instruments.    You can replace an AI with a single G5, you can replace your DG with a single G5.   When you do that you can eliminate the vacuum pump, which is a single point of failure that will kill BOTH the vacuum AI and DG at the same time.    With two G5s in their place, either can do the job of the other (they're switchable on the fly), and either can run for several hours on their own, independent batteries.   Even if one of them gets fried by a nuclear EMP or an electron worm or something, or if the entire electrical system fails, the other will still work and can be either an AI or a DG.   *AND* the G5s will provide backup displays for all of the information from the mechanical air instruments.

So I don't see an argument for how vacuum instruments are any better or safer than the new stuff, quite the contrary, actually.   Plus I find my scan is much more efficient, especially with all of the engine instruments in one spot near the flight instruments.    I kept the mechanical tach,  just as a latch-ditch backup, which I used once when my alternator failed, and so that my maint. records are still consistent with it.

Really, it's better.   Definitely an improvement in any way that I can think of.   Wouldn't go back.

[Ragsf15e]

41 minutes ago, Gagarin said:

But notice that the electronic displays require backups while the steam gauges do not. A traditional altimeter, airspeed indicator, VSI and compass are pretty reliable and do not require power to work. And a simple turn coordinator will keep you level in case of vac pump failure.

I don’t see it this way either.  The FAA has mandated that we have a backup attitude source if we want to fly IFR, and it doesn’t matter if you’re using a legacy vacuum adi or a brand new G1000nxi system, theres a backup.  The difference is that the electronic displays have something like 10,000 hours mtbf and clearly alert and/or revert to a backup mode if they fail.  They also contain their own backup power.

Traditional vacuum pumps generally last 500 hours ish and can fail in ways that are difficult to catch in IMC.  They also don’t have internal backup “power”.

Now I don’t disagree that your pitot/static instruments are easy to read and reliable- heck, they don’t require power or vacuum at all.  I think if you got a reasonable amount of time behind an electronic display you would see the more efficient scan Eric mentioned.

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, Gagarin said:

But notice that the electronic displays require backups while the steam gauges do not. A traditional altimeter, airspeed indicator, VSI and compass are pretty reliable and do not require power to work. And a simple turn coordinator will keep you level in case of vac pump failure.

In an ideal world you are correct...

Aviation has been far from ideal for as long as it has been around...

pick your poison...

Best regards,

-a-

[David_H]

It might be worth checking with Muncie Aviation. I've had good experiences with their Avionics work in the past.

[Gagarin]

Precise Flight has a low cost engine driven standby vacuum system  http://www.thevacsource.com/svs.php that uses the engine manifold pressure as a vacuum source. I have it on my M20J and only used once in VFR conditions. It works very well below below 8,000 ft and on approach. Another option is to replace the VSI with an IVSI (Instantaneous VSI) to control pitch attitude more accurately.