Mooney crash in Italy

[kmyfm20s]

Bummer, this is the 2nd Mooney today outside the US.

Unfortunately 1 dead and 3 injured.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201909211076857268-at-least-one-dead-three-injured-as-single-engine-plane-crashes-in-italy---reports/

[carusoam]

Strange looking Piper....  go Italy News!

Passing the word on to @mike_elliott

Best regards,

-a-

[HB-JAN]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/229193

Bad day :-(

Jan

[Mooney in Oz]

20 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Bummer, this is the 2nd Mooney today outside the US.

Unfortunately 1 dead and 3 injured.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201909211076857268-at-least-one-dead-three-injured-as-single-engine-plane-crashes-in-italy---reports/

It's a miracle that only one was killed.  The fire must have taken hold after they were all evacuated.

If the father survives, he will have to live with the loss of his 15 year old daughter and the injuries suffered to his other two daughters if they survive.

What a horrible few days.

RIP.

[kmyfm20s]

The post crash fires are awful! I think it was the fire extinguisher thread where I mentioned that if your lucky enough to survive the crash you next need to survive the fire. And honestly the fire scares me more than the crash! So sad!!

[mike_elliott]

Once again, if anyone knows how to contact the surviving pilot or his spouse, we would like to assist.

 

[RogueOne]

I hate seeing these...

Alleged Go around gone wrong.

sobering and tragic week for Mooney international. 

[Airways]

Heartbreaking. Look how the fuel moves to the fuselage and ignites there. The wings are barely scorched.

[Urs_Wildermuth]

Recently I have seen quite a few Mooneys catch fire after a survivable landing. Do we have a problem with this airframe? Steel cage is nice, but does preciously little if you get fire right under the cabin. This accident, the Acclaim Ultra, I recall a Swiss Mooney Eagle which overran, hit a wall and burst in flames, all 4 killed due to that, e.t.c.

It does look indeed like a go around, if I interpret the pictures correctly, the crash site is northwest of the short runway.

[steingar]

Go arounds can be a handful if you aren't ready.  Mother of all pitch up motions can easily lead to a departure stall.  Real shame.

[EricJ]

7 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

Recently I have seen quite a few Mooneys catch fire after a survivable landing. Do we have a problem with this airframe? Steel cage is nice, but does preciously little if you get fire right under the cabin. This accident, the Acclaim Ultra, I recall a Swiss Mooney Eagle which overran, hit a wall and burst in flames, all 4 killed due to that, e.t.c.

It does look indeed like a go around, if I interpret the pictures correctly, the crash site is northwest of the short runway.

Many, if not most, GA airplanes have fuel stored relatively close to, and sometimes inside, the cabin.    The main way to avoid a fire hazard during a crash is to run out of fuel. 

[ArtVandelay]

Many, if not most, GA airplanes have fuel stored relatively close to, and sometimes inside, the cabin.    The main way to avoid a fire hazard during a crash is to run out of fuel. 

The second best way may be to install bladders. Be interesting to see if bladders have as many post crash fires as wet tanks.


Tom

[DonMuncy]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The second best way may be to install bladders. Be interesting to see if bladders have as many post crash fires as wet tanks.
Tom

It would be interesting to see if there is enough data for someone to determine if there is a statistical difference. My guess would be that the severity of many crashes is so great that bladders would not statistically impact survivability. But that is only a guess.

[ArtVandelay]

It would be interesting to see if there is enough data for someone to determine if there is a statistical difference. My guess would be that the severity of many crashes is so great that bladders would not statistically impact survivability. But that is only a guess.

Yes, we have to limit it to survivable crashes (cabin & wings basically intact). Obviously if the wing is torn off nothing is going to help. But wet tanks leak on their own without a crash, I would think even the slightest impact is going to cause them to leak where a bladder might not. The true test, does insurance rates change, I’m guessing no.

 

 

Tom

[kmyfm20s]

What’s amazing is that we are so accustom to seeing post crash fires that if we see a crash without a fire we immediately assume it was a result of fuel exhaustion. 

[Hair_Helmet]

I bought an M20C a couple months ago that had collapsed the gear in a heavy crosswind landing.  The plane is in great shape, the fully extended flaps and nose (tail high) took all of the damage.  After reading everyone’s comments and seeing how my plane absorbed the energy without dragging the belly/creating heat, I’ll work towards installing bladders.... and hopefully remember to extend the flaps in an emergency while choosing grass if it’s an option.   

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard HairH.

Find the latest threads on bladders... they are all the rage... 

The search function should be easy to use...

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

FWIW, the O&N/Griggs bladder cells used in Mooneys are quite heavy rubber - heavier than other brands use I'm told. (The 64 gallon version in my E cost me ~35# useful load.) But I suppose there would be some advantage in a crash landing. 

[kris_adams]

14 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

The 64 gallon version in my E cost me ~35# useful load

Bob, I think it was 37 pounds in mine.  I too was surprised at how thick the bladders were.  (Hoping to get some of that weight back with my avionics upgrade and vacuum removal)

[Bob_Belville]

2 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said:

Bob, I think it was 37 pounds in mine.  I too was surprised at how thick the bladders were.  (Hoping to get some of that weight back with my avionics upgrade and vacuum removal)

Kris, you're no doubt correct, I was going on my memory, not a very reliable resource.  

[mike_elliott]

If they would make them with kevlar reinforcing like Indycar fuel cells, whos design parameters are being crashworthy vs. option for sealed tanks needing repair, then that would be an improvement for sure. Yes it is one more layer to penetrate as it is, but most crashes easily will tear the rubber bladders also. Only something very minor wont. 

[N201MKTurbo]

If you look at how the wing is made, it is attached to the roll cage along the top and bottom of the inside panel of the fuel tank. It is easy to imagine that a crash where one wing hits first, that it could torque the wing relative to the fuselage and could tear the seams of that inside panel, releasing the fuel into the cabin.

It does seem that bladders would be less susceptible to releasing fuel into the cabin.

[Hank]

13 hours ago, Hair_Helmet said:

I bought an M20C a couple months ago that had collapsed the gear in a heavy crosswind landing.  The plane is in great shape, the fully extended flaps and nose (tail high) took all of the damage.  After reading everyone’s comments and seeing how my plane absorbed the energy without dragging the belly/creating heat, I’ll work towards installing bladders.... and hopefully remember to extend the flaps in an emergency while choosing grass if it’s an option.   

Grassy areas can be unforgiving to a gear up landing! Belly strobe, step, flap hinges, etc., can dig into a soft spot in the ground, or a low area, leading to a sudden stop or creating a spin on the plane, both of which will increase airframe damage and occupant injury.

Just set it down on asphalt / concrete and under control, and slide straight down the middle to a quick, safe stop. Here's to it not happening to either one of us!!

[Fernando Paez]

Reading about post crash fires on this post made me remember an note I read about an Ex Mooney employee who in February 2019 raised a question about the new fiberglass shell which he apparently was told had not been tested for emergency landings, crashes.

He expressed his worries because fiberglass is brittle and upon impact would shatter and produce splinters which was not the case with the previous metallic shell. 

He suggested that the fiberglass shell be covered with fire resistant Kevlar that could also help with splinters and test it in a real life situation. 

He was apparently ignored. 

What are your thoughts on this and do you think his suggestions about using fire resistant kevlar useful or necessary? 

Regards, 

 

Fernando Paez 

[steingar]

I thought the Ultras were using Carbon fibre for the cockpit skins.