Aviation Insurance Market Update

[donkaye]

As another point in fact, I was surprised to find that my mentor instructor, Bob Goldin, taught past 85 years old.  Several years after the completion of all my training with him I found out that he was 89 years old.  He flew West a  couple of  years ago at age 91.  He was such a wealth of knowledge.  Anytime I had a question I would call him and he would enthusiastically provide me with the perfect answer.  I miss him and other great teachers.  I just try to carry on his traditions.

[MooneyMitch]

18 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Overall, I don’t like to rock the boat with 70+, but primarily it’s staying with the carrier (a good, established one) that matters. switching brokers won’t be a problem most of the time.

Thank you 

[Parker_Woodruff]

17 hours ago, donkaye said:

I am insured with USAIG and have been for many years.  They have also approved me as a Mooney Specific Instructor many years ago.  Still, no matter the size of the company, Allianz was penny wise and pound foolish in my opinion, as I wrote them in my email to the insurance agent after the denial of coverage and before the training.  I'm sure Mark got good training, since you approved it, but we don't know the cause of the accident.  So, while it may not have made any difference who trained him, maybe it would have.  We'll never know now.

If this was Allianz insurance paper underwritten by Elevon, it is probably because that was the beginning of the end of Elevon underwriting on Allianz' insurance paper.
 

Also, USAIG has been doing aviation insurance longer than anyone. Great company, policy, and claims service. Normally priced higher, but no one has been concerned about them going out of business.

[donkaye]

I've really changed my position on insurance costs over the past couple years.  I definitely don't go for the cheapest anymore.  I go for proven service in time of need.  Owning a lot of Real Estate I was looking to reduce insurance costs a couple of years ago.  An agent for the Apartment Association's recommended carrier said he could save me thousands of dollars if I went with him.  I spent several days getting all the paper work together, and sure enough he gave me a quote many thousands of dollars less than I was paying.  As part of the paperwork I provided, was a statement that a Condo Association that I was a part of was being sued by a tenant who tripped while moving out.  When the agent gave the paperwork to the underwriter they immediately turned down all my business; houses, condos, duplex, personal residence, cars, everything because of that lawsuit.  About a year and a half later that suit was resolved.  Meanwhile, during the interim, and just two days before Christmas, I had a couple of rental houses right across the street from each other get crowbarred open and burglarized.  Shows that 2" deadbolt locks are useless.  The door frames were wiped out.  My Insurance Company, Safeco, was so on top of my claims I couldn't believe it.  After providing the police report and pictures, and invoices for repairs, I got 2 checks immediately.  The other company I had never even heard of before.  The way they treated me in trying to give them business was an indication to me how I would be treated if I had a claim--poorly.

My poor tenants lost computers, iPads, and other things.  One of them was just a week from leaving to go back home to Korea.  What a way to remember our country!  I felt so bad that I personally gave each of them some money, called ADT, and had security systems installed in almost all my rental houses--including mine.

The moral of the story; buying cheap insurance isn't always the best way to go.

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 minutes ago, donkaye said:

......moral of the story; buying cheap insurance isn't always the best way to go.

Or as the salesman said of his cheapest motorcycle helmet, “A $10 helmet for a $10 skull.”  

[mike_elliott]

13 hours ago, donkaye said:

I am insured with USAIG and have been for many years.  They have also approved me as a Mooney Specific Instructor many years ago.  Still, no matter the size of the company, Allianz was penny wise and pound foolish in my opinion, as I wrote them in my email to the insurance agent after the denial of coverage and before the training.  I'm sure Mark got good training, since you approved it, but we don't know the cause of the accident.  So, while it may not have made any difference who trained him, maybe it would have.  We'll never know now.

I had USAIG for years, and only switched because they would not cover me to the limits Mooney International wanted for me to have doing the new Ultra transitions with my team of Mooney specific instructors they vetted. Upon hindsight, the limits I now have are what I want anyway to protect my bride in the event things were to go pear shaped. This same company allowed me to add you to this policy when Mooney Pros, Inc had you train Scott Heck while I was in Australia for that specific training, so it also surprised  me when I heard you could not obtain a non owned from them also or be added as named insured to others policies. I am sure I will face the same issues in a few more years and as Parker says, staying with the same company becomes important as we age out.

I would have done the training for Mark B, but had committed  to another new Ultra owner for the same time frame. It made sense for me to ask you to do this as Mark was going to be based in Carson City, close proximity to you for future competency instruction and the relationship could be established. When you couldn't because of the low limits of your non owned and the refusal to add as named insured without a financial penalty to Mark, I checked with another  Mooney Pro Instructor, Paul Kortopates, but he unfortunately was also scheduled to be teaching at the College that week and could not commit the time. 

Could Mark have been "taught"  anything different than what 3 days of intensive ground school, emergency procedures, 2 days of FITS training scenarios and real world aircraft control he received from both Kevin and the other unnamed Mooney specific instructor  (its not my place to name him, but suffice it to say, every one of us would love his name in our logbooks) Mark had that would have precluded him having an engine issue,  picking his landing spot on a road and subsequently crashing because of the need to pull up and not take out an innocent lady? I highly doubt it and dont even begin to think I could have been the difference maker. 

RIP Mark. We will stand tall with Jenny

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

If this was Allianz insurance paper underwritten by Elevon, it is probably because that was the beginning of the end for them. 
 

Also, USAIG has been doing aviation insurance longer than anyone. Great company, policy, and claims service. Normally priced higher, but no one has been concerned about them going out of business.

It is Allianz Global Corporate and Specialty underwritten by Worldlink Specialty. Allianz is the worlds largest insurance company founded in 1890,  is rated A (excellent) by A.M. Best, and has a rating of AA- (very strong) by Standard & Poor's. Parker, let me know if there is something I should know about them that I dont.

[donkaye]

8 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

It is Allianz Global Corporate and Specialty underwritten by Worldlink Specialty. Allianz is the worlds largest insurance company founded in 1890,  is rated A (excellent) by A.M. Best, and has a rating of AA- (very strong) by Standard & Poor's. Parker, let me know if there is something I should know about them that I dont.

What a disappointment to find out the insurance company is Allianz!  I swore to myself that I wouldn't ever spend even a penny on the company involved with that training.  Now I find out that I paid them for travel insurance on a trip to Hawaii we'll be taking in February.  I would expect nothing but trouble and any way they could find to deny coverage, if I ever were to file a claim with that company.  Now that I know, I will never again buy travel insurance if they're the insurer.

[mike_elliott]

2 minutes ago, donkaye said:

What a disappointment to find out the insurance company is Allianz!  I swore to myself that I wouldn't ever spend even a penny on the company involved with that training.  Now I find out that I paid them for travel insurance on a trip to Hawaii we'll be taking in February.  I would expect nothing but trouble and any way they could find to deny coverage, if I ever were to file a claim with that company.  Now that I know, I will never again buy travel insurance if they're the insurer.

Keep in mind, Don, this is the same company that allowed me to piggy back you onto my policy for Scott Heck's training. I doubt any other insurer would have done that. Because they do not want to issue you a policy due to your age in no way reflects their posture of paying out claims. In fact, it enhances it in my opinion as they mitigate their risks on the front end instead of in the fine print, but could be wrong. I havent had to file a claim yet, but trust my highly regarded agents advice they are an excellent company and trust the ratings given by Best and Standard and Poor.

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

It is Allianz Global Corporate and Specialty underwritten by Worldlink Specialty. Allianz is the worlds largest insurance company founded in 1890,  is rated A (excellent) by A.M. Best, and has a rating of AA- (very strong) by Standard & Poor's. Parker, let me know if there is something I should know about them that I dont.

Allianz as far as paper is fine.  Worldlink is fine.

A company called Elevon wrote many light aircraft policies using Allianz paper over the last couple years.  Unfortunately for Elevon, Allianz pulled their paper from them which caused many policies to be non-renewed.

Your situation is unrelated to that deal. 

 

To be clear, if Elevon (underwriter)/Allianz (paper) was not allowing the instructor scenario you guys wanted, that's an entirely different deal than Allianz underwriters their own (Allianz) Paper.

[Parker_Woodruff]

@mike_elliott @donkaye I edited my above post to be more clear:

"beginning of the end of Elevon underwriting on Allianz' insurance paper"