DGMorgan79

Newbie here looking for advice...

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Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it. He said after that he would transition to the complex. He also mentioned some pilots feel more comfortable flying a fixed gear slower airplane for a few years on trips in order to get the feel for cross countries, atc, different airports, etc. prior to transitioning to a faster more complex airplane. He offered to train me once I completed my PPL but those were his thoughts. 

I really don't like the 172 or the high wing in general for some reason.  Also trying to get the hours on the rental can be a pain with my schedule and my instructor's schedule. Thanks for all of the input from the group here. 

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Odd...

Most instructors would recommend learning IR in the plane you are going to fly long term...

Lots of technique to go with the training.

You may ask again to clarify his answer...

 

i trained for the IR just before getting the O in a C172... then trained again on the techniques of the IR that were O specific...

It is financially less efficient to make it a two step process...

Best regards,

-a-

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27 minutes ago, DGMorgan79 said:

Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it. He said after that he would transition to the complex. He also mentioned some pilots feel more comfortable flying a fixed gear slower airplane for a few years on trips in order to get the feel for cross countries, atc, different airports, etc. prior to transitioning to a faster more complex airplane. He offered to train me once I completed my PPL but those were his thoughts. 

I really don't like the 172 or the high wing in general for some reason.  Also trying to get the hours on the rental can be a pain with my schedule and my instructor's schedule. Thanks for all of the input from the group here. 

Opinions will be all over the place on this.  I think after your private ticket, it's good to get some amount of stick time and experience before working on an instrument ticket.  Maybe it's not strictly necessary, but I think the extra experience made my IR training more efficient.

On the other hand, I don't think complex aircraft is something that needs to wait.  The theoretical part just takes some reading and learning, but I think it reinforces the routine of checklists and doing things systematically that you're already at right after finishing your private training.  I think there is a risk of that attitude degrading if you stay with simple, familiar aircraft.

 

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5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

On another note, I'm still looking for the opportunity to get some quality dual with any of those guys. Now with just over 1000 Mooney hours, it would still be worth the time and cost to fly with a really Mooney master.

Same here.

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1 hour ago, DGMorgan79 said:

Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it. He said after that he would transition to the complex. He also mentioned some pilots feel more comfortable flying a fixed gear slower airplane for a few years on trips in order to get the feel for cross countries, atc, different airports, etc. prior to transitioning to a faster more complex airplane. He offered to train me once I completed my PPL but those were his thoughts. 

I really don't like the 172 or the high wing in general for some reason.  Also trying to get the hours on the rental can be a pain with my schedule and my instructor's schedule. Thanks for all of the input from the group here. 

I really hate that advice... It really seems very condescending.  As if a Mooney is just too advanced for you to learn in. 

With regards to IFR training, so much of that is learning to use the systems in the plane. So why not learn in the plane you're actually gonna use? 

If this guy doesn't want to teach you in a Mooney, go find an instructor who will. 

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2 hours ago, DGMorgan79 said:

Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it. He said after that he would transition to the complex. He also mentioned some pilots feel more comfortable flying a fixed gear slower airplane for a few years on trips in order to get the feel for cross countries, atc, different airports, etc. prior to transitioning to a faster more complex airplane. He offered to train me once I completed my PPL but those were his thoughts. 

I really don't like the 172 or the high wing in general for some reason.  Also trying to get the hours on the rental can be a pain with my schedule and my instructor's schedule. Thanks for all of the input from the group here. 

Hmmm.... I could agree with the "finish you training in the rental 172" part of his advice. It will be faster to finish it in the 172, but I can't agree with the rest of it. When I was finishing up my PPL (all of it in Cherokees) I was talking to the owner of the flight school and telling him I was planning to buy a Mooney. He basically gave me the same advice, to wait a few years, maybe buy a Cherokee first and get a couple hundred hours in it. Mooney's are fast, more difficult, etc... The school owns a Mooney and he has a lot of experience flying it, so he was coming from a position of knowledge, not OWT. I appreciated his advice, but did not follow it. I did make one long cross country from Southern California to Phoenix in a Cherokee, it was so slow I sometimes feel like I am still flying that trip...

I had a total of 58.6 hours (all in Cherokees) when I bought my Mooney. I received my complex endorsement after my first flight in my Mooney. I had 10 hours (required) of dual transition training in the Mooney before flying solo. It did take me about 8 hours before I was feeling comfortable in it and by the 10th I was ready to fly on my own. Mind you not feeling like a pro, but feeling like I could safely fly it on my own. There was another 5 hours of required solo before flying passengers. 

With my 15 hours in the Mooney under my belt I took my wife and son on a short flight to French Valley for some dinner. With another 6 hours under my belt I flew my wife and son from SoCal to Lake Havasu for lunch and then took a long sightseeing flight back over Anza Borrego. A week later we really stretched our legs and flew up to Mesquite for my wife's father's birthday party. Since then we have been all over. Frequent trips to Phoenix (which is a lot faster in the Mooney than the Cherokee), frequent trips to Salt Lake, multiple trips to the Idaho Falls area and as far north as Yellowstone and also up to Redding in northern California. The highlight was this past Summer flying from California to North Carolina and back.

When I look at the almost 350 hours I've flown the Mooney in the past 2 1/2 years, all I can say is that I'm glad I didn't follow his advice and slowly putt around the skies for a couple of years before buying my Mooney.

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Just now, gsxrpilot said:

 

If this guy doesn't want to teach you in a Mooney, go find an instructor who will. 

Paul couldn’t agree more there are many of us who went from trainers directly to our Mooney’s , I’d certainly rather and did get my IR in my Mooney with 70 or so hours in my log book, once you become adjusted to faster speed ie need quicker thinking the Mooney is no different as long as your on proper speeds

 

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35 minutes ago, Danb said:

Paul couldn’t agree more there are many of us who went from trainers directly to our Mooney’s , I’d certainly rather and did get my IR in my Mooney with 70 or so hours in my log book, once you become adjusted to faster speed ie need quicker thinking the Mooney is no different as long as your on proper speeds

 

Amen, brother! I did spend two lazy years flying my Mooney around the country and over the Appalachians frequently before starting Instrument work. Great plane, great instructors, great fun!!

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@DGMorgan79

This is how the engine and prop in my 67F respond to a low RPM prop cycle. I thought of you when before calling tower for clearance so excuse the video quality as it was done on a whim with my phone.

 

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Way to go, Ross! :)

That really demonstrates the gov working...

Interesting response of the MP too...  probably gauge dynamics?  The throttle wasn’t moving...

Best regards,

-a-

 

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On 9/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, carusoam said:

Odd...

Most instructors would recommend learning IR in the plane you are going to fly long term...

Lots of technique to go with the training.

You may ask again to clarify his answer...

 

i trained for the IR just before getting the O in a C172... then trained again on the techniques of the IR that were O specific...

It is financially less efficient to make it a two step process...

Best regards,

-a-

Doing instrument training in my plane was great. Definitely made me more proficient. Plus it was always available. 

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I solo'd when I was 18 or 19 with a special Piper had going in Winter Haven, in '78, then family came along and we were young and poor. Driving home from the birth of our first grand-child, an 11 hour drive I decided it was time to make that trip shorter. All of my training, except for spin, was in a 172 when I was doing my cross countries and finished the mandatory solo hours I bought in to a Cherokee 180. I flew that plane for about 10 years. A year ago this month I bought a J, I had about 350 hours at the time. I was also looking to spend about what you are looking to spend. I had to increase that but found a great 1985 model with low time on a reman'd engine. The ONLY thing you will regret if you buy the Mooney is; it's very hard to build time. These planes are quick when compared to most SEL planes. You simply get there sooner.

 

The lesson of your Dad landing with no gear down will be one you can learn from and probably will always check, "just one more gumps..." before touch down.

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I solo'd when I was 18 or 19 with a special Piper had going in Winter Haven, in '78, then family came along and we were young and poor. Driving home from the birth of our first grand-child, an 11 hour drive I decided it was time to make that trip shorter. All of my training, except for spin, was in a 172 when I was doing my cross countries and finished the mandatory solo hours I bought in to a Cherokee 180. I flew that plane for about 10 years. A year ago this month I bought a J, I had about 350 hours at the time. I was also looking to spend about what you are looking to spend. I had to increase that but found a great 1985 model with low time on a reman'd engine. The ONLY thing you will regret if you buy the Mooney is; it's very hard to build time. These planes are quick when compared to most SEL planes. You simply get there sooner.

 

The lesson of your Dad landing with no gear down will be one you can learn from and probably will always check, "just one more gumps..." before touch down.

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I solo'd when I was 18 or 19 with a special Piper had going in Winter Haven, in '78, then family came along and we were young and poor. Driving home from the birth of our first grand-child, an 11 hour drive I decided it was time to make that trip shorter. All of my training, except for spin, was in a 172 when I was doing my cross countries and finished the mandatory solo hours I bought in to a Cherokee 180. I flew that plane for about 10 years. A year ago this month I bought a J, I had about 350 hours at the time. I was also looking to spend about what you are looking to spend. I had to increase that but found a great 1985 model with low time on a reman'd engine. The ONLY thing you will regret if you buy the Mooney is; it's very hard to build time. These planes are quick when compared to most SEL planes. You simply get there sooner.

 

The lesson of your Dad landing with no gear down will be one you can learn from and probably will always check, "just one more gumps..." before touch down.

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On 9/19/2019 at 12:18 PM, DGMorgan79 said:

Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it. He said after that he would transition to the complex. He also mentioned some pilots feel more comfortable flying a fixed gear slower airplane for a few years on trips in order to get the feel for cross countries, atc, different airports, etc. prior to transitioning to a faster more complex airplane. He offered to train me once I completed my PPL but those were his thoughts. 

I really don't like the 172 or the high wing in general for some reason.  Also trying to get the hours on the rental can be a pain with my schedule and my instructor's schedule. Thanks for all of the input from the group here. 

I think the caveat I would put on this, is that after gaining some time on other planes, you might decide you want a different Mooney, like a turbo or longer body.  Or something completely different with better off-airport performance.  Or you find you need a 6 place plane.  Some time building with rentals will help you identify your real mission requirements.  For me, I bought my J after a lot of researching and flying.  By the time I was ready to buy, I was looking at C models, then I thought about 182's, but after time realized the J was the perfect fit for 90% of my real life missions.  No offense to my C-flying brethren...

I see many MS'ers that have had several planes.  I have only had one (for 8 years, now).  How many of you feel you bought another plane because your mission did not change, just your recognition of the mission?  

Just my $.02 -dan

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On 9/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, carusoam said:

Most instructors would recommend learning IR in the plane you are going to fly long term...

Finishing in the 172 might not be bad since you are close but I'd definitely do the IR in the Mooney...in fact that's what I did almost 10 years ago.  I don't see how you'd regret that decision.  Finish in the 172, get some good skills flying the mooney, start your IR!

If the 172 availability gets really bad, I wouldn't hesitate to do everything in the Mooney either

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@Dan at S43 makes a good point. I would just say that for me, the mission became much clearer once I owned my own airplane. Renting just put too many constraints on the flying that I never really knew what it could be. I bought an M20C because I didn't know really how expensive the whole ownership thing was going to be. And I also wasn't sure how much we'd use it.  So I wanted a plane wasn't so much of a financial commitment that it could hurt me, or was difficult to walk away from if things really didn't work out.

Buying the C right, allowed me to fly it for a couple of years mostly maintenance free. In that time we put 400 hours on it and realized that we knew how to make good use of an airplane. It also clarified the costs involved. Two years in we sold it and got most everything back. In the end, those 400 hours were only about a third of what it would have cost to rent the same 400 hours. Then we went and bought the M20K 252 which we fly just as often but are logging just a few less hours as it's just faster.

Buy a C and buy it right. You won't have a problem selling it to move up later if you choose to. The C is a great Mooney to transition into from the 172. It's a great platform to get the IFR. But it's speed and efficiency will open your eyes to long cross countries and the ability to really go places that would just not be practical in the 172.

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Dan my mission didn’t change I went from a 1977 J to a new 1988J, purchased on impulse,

then in 2006 I purchased a 2005 Bravo since  I didn’t want to do any more panel work, on impulse again, changing to the Bravo changed my mission, due to the increased speed and range Long range tanks, my wife decided it was time for her to go on long trips, worked out great so far doing it assbackwards.

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2 hours ago, WaynePierce said:

The ONLY thing you will regret if you buy the Mooney is; it's very hard to build time. These planes are quick when compared to most SEL planes. You simply get there sooner.

 

Not "quite" true. You can build time exactly the same, you just need (get) to pick destinations that are further away. ;)

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14 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Not "quite" true. You can build time exactly the same, you just need (get) to pick destinations that are further away. ;)

yep, one hour is one hour regardless of how fast your going 

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On 9/20/2019 at 7:10 PM, RLCarter said:

yep, one hour is one hour regardless of how fast your going 

Most places have more fields within a Mooney hour than within a Cessna hour. During my transition, we visited most of them, which was a large variety of runways:  flat, sloped, humped, dished, crooked, obstructed, clear, wide, narrow, etc. Great learning experience before being turned loose to travel!

My first trip with PPL was KHTW-->KAVL, 200nm along the Appalachians in a no-GPS Cessna 172. Almost three months later, I took my wife to surprise her father on his birthday (because the drive was 9-10 hours), KHTW-->KFAY, 270 nm across the same hills. Flight time wasn't a whole lot different, but probably used less fuel. It was my second Charlie field, after my checkride at KCRW.

Get a Mooney, go travel and have fun! Got IFR in it a couple of years later, after thoroughly learning the plane so that flying was second nature. And a little procrastination . . . .

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On 9/19/2019 at 3:18 PM, DGMorgan79 said:

Just a follow up to my original post. I had a nice conversation with a Mooney instructor yesterday and he suggested I finish my training in the rental 172 and even do IFR in it.

Be careful who you call a Mooney instructor. They might not take kindly to it :)

 

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