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ExpressJetter

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Hey all,

I am working out the details on a purchase but am running into a little issue.  The plane I'm looking at buying hasnt flown in about a year and is out of an annual.  I'd like to get it to a mooney service center for a prebuy/annual.   The seller has offered to have it ferried(by a buddy with a ferry permit) to a mechanic for the prebuy, but was expecting it to be a flight that is 10 minutes, vs a 45 min flight to the place I want to look at it.  Issue is the owner doesnt have insurance and is worried about the liability of a longer flight to my mechanics.

 

Any thoughts or ideas on how to make this happen? Any way to get a 1 day insurance policy for the flight?  Anyone know of an a&p to do the ferry in the northeast?  Just trying to see the options out there that avoid using his mechanic that performed the last annual.

 

Thanks

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Absolutely do not use any shop that the owner knows. And if he is too cheap to spend money flying it or keeping it insured or in annual, do you really want this plane? Here’s another thing, most of the risk is takeoff and landing. Cruise flight is pretty low risk. So if he is worried that it’s going to fly 10 minutes OK but not 40 minutes well I would pass.

Edited by jetdriven
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We have an insurance guy... that may know an answer....

The amount of risk to the plane owner and pilot is starting to rise...

  • plane hasn’t flown much...
  • the Pilot May not be very Mooney savy....
  • a simple engine out can be a very expensive loss...

 

it is possible that an MSC/Mooney mechanic May have everything needed... insurance, trained pilot, and a place to take it...

Best regards,

-a-

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6 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Absolutely do not use any shop that the owner knows. And if he is too cheap to spend money flying it or keeping it insured or in annual, do you really want this plane? Here’s another thing, most of the risk is takeoff and landing. Cruise flight is pretty low risk. So if he is worried that it’s going to fly 10 minutes OK but not 40 minutes well I would pass.

That's my thought, but all talks have not been direct.  His friend is handling the sale, who says the guy has a bunch of money.   I just dont get why he doesnt keep insurance of it even though it's pretty cheap.

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1 minute ago, carusoam said:

We have an insurance guy... that may know an answer....

The amount of risk to the plane owner and pilot is starting to rise...

  • plane hasn’t flown much...
  • the Pilot May not be very Mooney savy....
  • a simple engine out can be a very expensive loss...

 

it is possible that an MSC/Mooney mechanic May have everything needed... insurance, trained pilot, and a place to take it...

Best regards,

-a-

My call in the am is to the MSC to see what their idea/options are.

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When I purchased my E I contacted a broker and told him i needed "Hull not in Motion" until I was ready to fly it, I seem to remember him asking if I needed ferry it to another place to call him back, so maybe you can get insurance for ferry flights...?

Edited by RLCarter
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8 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

When I purchased my E I contacted a broker and told him i needed "Hull not in Motion" until I was ready to fly it, I seem to remember him asking if I needed fairy it to another place to call him back, so maybe you can get insurance for fairy flights...?

I wouldn't think a fairy needs an airplane in order to fly:D

Edited by MikeOH
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I doubt I'd go for it.  I specify where the airplane is to be inspected, it's up to the owner to get it there.  Does he want to sell his airplane or not?

To me an out of annual airplane is worth scrap value and not a penny more.  If it is in such good shape why doesn't the owner just hire a mechanic and get the annual inspection done?  What's he afraid of?  Neglected airplanes get really expensive really quickly.  Do what you will, I wouldn't budge on this unless the aircraft was annulled by a mechanic who'd never seen it.  An MSC better yet.  Owner doesn't like it, he can go find another customer while his airplane continues to degrade.

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Run away, don't walk! On my first Mooney I dumped $15k my first year fixing issues of a "low time" plane that hardly flew. If the pilot can't keep it insured, registered and flying, I guarantee there are all kinds of deferred mx that YOU will be on the hook to fix. There are plenty of Mooney's on the market. Unless you are getting a plane $25-50k under value and you are willing to have it in the shop a lot over the next year, you aren't getting a deal.

Just my advice from lessons hard-learned.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod

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Don't listen to this guy. ∆. Any airplane that fits your budget, needs, and plans is worth at least having a look at. Yeah it might need things, but those things may not be airworthiness items you can pick at over time. 

It's at least worth looking at vs listening to someone on the internet who has never seen the airplane and is just guessing. 

 

I'd go look at it or have someone local go look at it. Figure out why it's not in annual, and go from there. It could be out of annual for financial reasons and there isn't anything stopping it from getting through. You never know unless you ask. 

 

Or again, you can just make guesses with strangers on the internet and pass it up. 

Edited by chriscalandro
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Don't listen to this guy. ∆. Any airplane that fits your budget, needs, and plans is worth at least having a look at. Yeah it might need things, but those things may not be airworthiness items you can pick at over time. 
It's at least worth looking at vs listening to someone on the internet who has never seen the airplane and is just guessing. 
 
I'd go look at it or have someone local go look at it. Figure out why it's not in annual, and go from there. It could be out of annual for financial reasons and there isn't anything stopping it from getting through. You never know unless you ask. 
 
Or again, you can just make guesses with strangers on the internet and pass it up. 
The OP asked for advice. My advice is just as relevant as yours. He should make an informed decision and there is a lot of knowledge on this forum, which is why it is so awesome. Please don't try to discredit others' advice on this forum. We are a Mooney family and should treat each other as such.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod

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Agree with all who say run, don't walk - it is not worth the financial risk.  Buy a plane that is in annual and flying. 

If you decide to go forward, I agree Brian (Orionfit) is a terrific resource. 

Also talk to Dave Mathiesen at Airmods in Robbinsville NJ for further guidance.  He knows these planes, and his shop has knowledge and resources in getting them moved places better than anyone.

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3 minutes ago, DXB said:

Agree with all who say run, don't walk - it is not worth the financial risk.  Buy a plane that is in annual and flying. 

If you decide to go forward, I agree Brian (Orionfit) is a terrific resource. 

Also talk to Dave Mathiesen at Airmods in Robbinsville NJ for further guidance.  He knows these planes, and his shop has knowledge and resources in getting them moved places better than anyone.

I wanted the annual done at airmods,  but the seller doesnt want it to go that far and across state lines.  We agreed on Henry Webber in Lancaster PA ( another MSC).  Anyone got any info on them?

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That sounds like a good plan. I think it’s understandable the seller wants to limit the distance it gets moved. There’s another thread around here about that. 

 

Again, there’s no reason to abandon it yet if it looks like it’s going to be a good fit for you. I don’t care if you buy a 20k airplane or a 70k airplane. The potential for heavy maintenance items doesn’t change much from what I have seen. Go through the process and it will either work out or it won’t  nobody here (so far) has seen or had any experience with this airplane except you  use best judgement and move forward.

I’ve said it before, but if everyone followed the “run don’t walk” advice that gets thrown around here daily, there would be no more than 3 vintage Mooneys still flying. 

 

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