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Possible ads-b extension


RobertGary1

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8 minutes ago, Yetti said:

In the 40 year old plane that you are currently betting your life on?

The logical guy would ask what evidence there is that 40 year old planes take more lives than new planes. How often does the NTSB conclude the issue was with the age of the plane?
I don't feel any safer in the new T206 than in my 40 year old Mooney.

-Robert

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11 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Oh the question game I like this:   Why should the kind of accuracy you speak of cost $4000 when I can get the same for $9.00    You say "Are you going to trust your life on a $9 USB.   OK so lets put 3 of them together for a total cost of $27 and have them vote on the most accurate position.    Would that not be a much better way to bet your life than the 15 year old technology you are currently betting your life on?

https://portal.u-blox.com/s/question/0D52p00008HKCDmCAP/does-ublox-standalone-positioning-provide-vertical-positioning-how-precise-is-it

 

 

I'm confused about your point as that's not what I was trying to point out. My only thought there was the practicality of planning to fly into LIFR weather in a single engine airplane with the additional factor of one vacuum pump and in the event of an engine failure your "time of useful vision" before impact is abysmally short. The question was "is it a wise idea" to put yourself and your passengers in that position? Its a gamble between "will I make it without an engine failure or not" because the outcome if it happens is infinitely different than if you had even a 700 foot ceiling. 

The same logic applies to night flying out west where there are big rocks and no lights on the ground. Its always the pilots gamble and choice. The question to ponder is- "how wise is the decision"?

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24 minutes ago, cliffy said:

 My only thought there was the practicality of planning to fly into LIFR weather in a single engine airplane with the additional factor of one vacuum pump and in the event of an engine failure your "time of useful vision" before impact is abysmally short. The question was "is it a wise idea" to put yourself and your passengers in that position? Its a gamble between "will I make it without an engine failure or not" because the outcome if it happens is infinitely different than if you had even a 700 foot ceiling. 

That is a bit more of an emotional argument. As a very logic centered person I would look at the risk factors that most likely show up in NTSB reports. Pilot currency and skill, yes. Engines going out for no reason; not really. And I say that as someone who has unfortunately done a glider landing in a Mooney.

I live in a fog area so approaches to 200 feet are not uncommon, although foothill alternatives are always available.

(BTW: Get a G5, doesn't rely on vacuum pump and has independent battery). 

-Robert

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On 9/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, chriscalandro said:

The problem with shops being backed up is because pilots are waiting until the last minute.  I don't see any reason why it should be extended because people are procrastinating and not getting it done.  What do you think extending it is going to do?

After having ADSB for some time now i believe it is absolutely silly not to have it.  Even better if you have in.  The amount of information gathered is literally a life saver.

While I understand your viewpoint, and am equipped myself, I think that the number of midairs shows your lifesaving claim to contain a bit of drama.

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2 minutes ago, Johnnybgoode said:

While I understand your viewpoint, and am equipped myself, I think that the number of midairs shows your lifesaving claim to contain a bit of drama.

You clearly have not been flying in Florida or Arizona. Ask anyone from Phoenix who has had adsb to fly without traffic. Ask for stories. No drama added I can promise you. 

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3 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

You clearly have not been flying in Florida or Arizona. Ask anyone from Phoenix who has had adsb to fly without traffic. Ask for stories. No drama added I can promise you. 

So there were lots of midairs before this technology in Florida and Phoenix? I really didn't hear about it being epidemic. But you are right, I don't fly in those areas VFR. Perhaps though, the technology has changed the way we fly VFR - used to be we looked outside, not at our tablets.

Edited by Johnnybgoode
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How did we ever survive flying when all we had was one crystal controlled radio and a single VOR receiver. No transponder, no altitude reporting, no GPS, no tablets, no AHRS, no synvision, no alphabet airspace, paper charts and a wiz wheel, ATC pushing little "boats" across their horizontal screen for separation and doing PAR approaches. 

OH, the horror of it all :-) :-) 

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Just now, cliffy said:

The spread of responses is interesting and it would be interesting also to quantify them according to total flight time to see if there is any correlation to that parameter in that the more total time the less one wants to assume risk.

You said a mouthful...with age and experience comes wisdom...odds sometimes feel like they are against us when we've managed to get away with a thing or two over the years. There's always those what if's. Sometimes flying brings on that mini skirt is tucked in my pantyhose feeling, and we have to get beyond the high risk moments. Like every takeoff, lots of landings when power loss wouldn't allow us to make the pavement. None of us like looking down at rocks and raggedy topography...or dense forests for that matter. Was going up today, but now, think I'll go hide under the bed to grieve on the notion, my plane only has one engine, I don't have a spare heart and my plane is older than my girlfriend. Crap! We're doomed!

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5 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

You clearly have not been flying in Florida or Arizona. Ask anyone from Phoenix who has had adsb to fly without traffic. Ask for stories. No drama added I can promise you. 

I flew most of my career in the LA Basin, ORD, JFK and now transit PHX quite a bit. As I mentioned before, you'll find after a while that the fish finder is more of a distraction than an asset, just like TCAS was and turned out to be. It was "fun'  to see all the traffic but then you realize the vast majority are not and never were a threat so you become complacent with the technology. The perception of help is vastly overstated for traffic but the weather in could turn out to be quite valuable.

All that heads down stuff looking at TV screens should be redirected at looking out the windows, This has been a problem since the introduction of FMCs and the 757

Goggle up "Children of the Magenta Line" on utube. 

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9 minutes ago, Johnnybgoode said:

So there were lots of midairs before this technology in Florida and Phoenix? I really didn't hear about it being epidemic. But you are right, I don't fly in those areas VFR. Perhaps though, the technology has changed the way we fly VFR - used to be we looked outside, not at our tablets.

Have a look at ASRS reports and then come back and say that again. Go talk to the people at DVT tower, or the nearby air Force Base. 

 

You survived because there were not anywhere bear the number of airplanes in the sky at the same time. Nowhere near the same number of students, and nowhere near the gap in piloting skills currently bombing through the skies. 

 

You tell yourself what you want because you don't want to buy a piece of required equipment, but you're only talking yourself out of it. Not me, and not the people that know better. 

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53 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

Have a look at ASRS reports and then come back and say that again. Go talk to the people at DVT tower, or the nearby air Force Base. 

You survived because there were not anywhere bear the number of airplanes in the sky at the same time. Nowhere near the same number of students, and nowhere near the gap in piloting skills currently bombing through the skies. 

You tell yourself what you want because you don't want to buy a piece of required equipment, but you're only talking yourself out of it. Not me, and not the people that know better. 

Us poor folk can't see the ASRS reports, we have to wait for summaries to come out. And I've not noticed a huge change in piloting skills [other than my own], but I've only been at it for 12 years.

Oh, that ADS-B isn't really "required" equipment. I know, because I'm not getting it. My panel is full, my wallet isn't, and ATL just cleared me into the Bravo for the first time ever a few days ago, about 8 nm before I was planning to turn Direct to Destination anyway. So no, I won't miss not having it. I just hope not too many other pilots out there flying by their ipad instead of the windshield don't miss me not having it . . . . .

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Now that I have my WAAS/ADSB out installed...

1) Will you see me if you look out the window?

2) Will You See me If you are heads down looking at the iPad with your ADSB in working?

3) Does big sky theory still apply...

4) I went CB(?) And Big G...  at the same time... GDL82 connected to my old, Alan supplied, transponder... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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The ADSB points out traffic I cannot see, until it’s uncomfortable close or sometimes I never do. Would have I had a collision, probably not, big sky and all...but it is nice to be able make avoidance maneuvers long before it becomes an emergency.
See and avoid works most of the time but I like better odds.



Tom

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1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

The ADSB points out traffic I cannot see, until it’s uncomfortable close or sometimes I never do. Would have I had a collision, probably not, big sky and all...but it is nice to be able make avoidance maneuvers long before it becomes an emergency.
See and avoid works most of the time but I like better odds.



Tom

The Garmin tells you over the intercom “traffic 3 o’clock 100 feet below” or something like that. I don’t have it yet but my avionics guy was showing me. 

-Robert 

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49 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Now that I have my WAAS/ADSB out installed...

1) Will you see me if you look out the window?

2) Will You See me If you are heads down looking at the iPad with your ADSB in working?

3) Does big sky theory still apply...

4) I went CB(?) And Big G...  at the same time... GDL82 connected to my old, Alan supplied, transponder... :)

Best regards,

-a-

Good for you Bub...But now you have to quit all that hot doggin because the adsb will rat you out!

Yeah, I'll see you, but that thing is going fast!

 

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2 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

Have a look at ASRS reports and then come back and say that again. Go talk to the people at DVT tower, or the nearby air Force Base. 

 

You survived because there were not anywhere bear the number of airplanes in the sky at the same time. Nowhere near the same number of students, and nowhere near the gap in piloting skills currently bombing through the skies. 

 

You tell yourself what you want because you don't want to buy a piece of required equipment, but you're only talking yourself out of it. Not me, and not the people that know better. 

You missed the part where I mentioned that I already have it, but that's okay.  I am not a hater of the tech, but you have pointed out two pretty small areas compared to the rest of the country where the equipment will be "required".  Uncle Sam taught me to fly about 20 years ago now - and for the record, I have flown into all the USAF bases in FL - and I just don't feel that the benefit is there for me in the Charlotte or surrounding airspace.  Oh well, opinions, I guess...  To each their own.  And in the end, it's just $$.

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I can say, in Florida, my ADS-B saved me a really close call.  I was in the pattern on down wind at Spruce Creek, under the Class C airspace of Daytona Beach, when while looking out at the airport adjusting my pattern and checking for no radio traffic, bitchin Betty started hollering "Traffic one o clock".  I looked out the windscreen, saw no one, looked at my G3X screen and the dot was growing fast from my right.  I thought, what the heck, am I coming up on a cub going really slow in the pattern when all of a sudden, coming in from my right front, I see a Cessna 172 going the wrong way in the pattern.  I had to dive to avoid it (up I would have penetrated the Class C at 1200' MSL).  He WAS NOT coming into my flight path from a spot I would have been looking for him.

I keyed the mic and asked if he was flying into Spruce Creek ...... with no response.  Me and an Apache that had to deal with him on his crosswind came to the conclusion it was an Embry Riddle student totally oblivious to our airport, our frequency, and the pattern.  I remember my thoughts after landing.  I was really glad I had my ADS-B that day.

Tom

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In any emergency (declared or not) you can break class B airspace if you deem it necessary for safety. You may have to explain your move but nothing will happen. If its safer to go there do it. 

No doubt you had a close call and ADSB helped. I've had TCAS RAs save me 3 times.  Whether or not we would have collided is a moot point now. If not, it would have been real close. 

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