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May have extra $ leftover from rebuild loan - what to do?


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8 minutes ago, Stanton R said:

Another reason for the EDM 900 is you will bet all pressurized oil and fuel out of the cockpit. 

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

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20 hours ago, TheLachlan said:

What MP and RPM do you run it at with the turbo on? Also what kind of increases in performance do you notice at different altitudes? I had not used mine much yet.

Book says continuous use no more than 27 mp and no lower than 3500 feet.  I run mine more conservative and will usually try to keep it around 25 to 26 mp and do not engage below 5k.  The biggest difference is above 10k.  I can climb at 750 foot a minute easy all the way to 15 -16 k vs climb in an F above 10k is like 100 ft per minute.  The speed increase above 10k is so nice as well I think it is about 20+ kts.  I can get a true airspeed of right at 178 kts or about 200 mph once in cruise above 10k vs non turbo of more like 150 to 160 TAS at those altitudes.  I am still looking forward to try to take it to the low FL's like 18, 19, or 20 (15-16 is about as high as i have been so far normally stay between 9500 and 12500) to see if it will perform as billed. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:42 AM, MBDiagMan said:

We are all different, but for me the answer would be obvious.  Put the extra money against the loan.  I hate debt!

I completely agree with you! Put it to the loan and then save up for the JPI.  Interest is expensive!

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Worth looking at, as well.  The two 3-1/8" displays fit in a standard hole, replacing every engine and fuel gauge, plus some neat options.  We also offer an upgrade package that uses the existing probes and cables.  When purchasing through a larger dealer and taking advantage of rebates, you'd be looking at roughly $3700.00

 

https://buy-ei.com/cgr-30-combo-package/

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3 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

There are a few documented instances of blue fuel dripping on copilot legs or fuel smells tracked to the gauge on Mooneyspace over the years. 

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2 hours ago, Huitt3106 said:

I completely agree with you! Put it to the loan and then save up for the JPI.  Interest is expensive!

Except it's not expensive. And debt doesn't have to be bad. There are lots of ways debt on an airplane is cheaper than paying cash, when that cash can be out working for you.

True that consumer debt spent on an airplane because other funds don't exist, probably isn't a good idea. But we have no idea that is the case here. The OP might have several million out working for him making more for him than the loan on the engine is costing him in interest. 

He's asking for Mooney advice, not financial advice.

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4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

Fuel line to the pressure gauge broke on my airplane and sprayed fuel on the apprentice that was helping the IA during a ground run just before I bought my airplane.    A friend got oil all over himself and the floor of a Tiger when the fitting failed on the oil pressure gauge during a cross country.   Apparently a LOT of oil will pump out of that if the line opens.   Made a mess.

Those aren't especially isolated incidents it seems.

 

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3 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

Hasn’t happened to me in a Mooney Skates, but it happened in my Cessna.  Oil didn’t spray, but it leaked profusely onto my instructors pants until we could get it back on the ground.  I do believe that keeping gas and oil out of the cockpit is a good thing,, but by itself is not enough reason for an engine monitor.  That said,, there are still plenty of reasons to adequately justify an engine monitor, but I probably would never have known the value if there would not have been One already in my F when I bought it.

There are so many things that you could do without, but find to be really useful once you fly with it.  There are even things that are calculated for you rather than raw values.  An example is % Power and Gallons per hour.  Really good information to have already calculated and at your finger tips.

 

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17 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

Hasn’t happened to me in a Mooney Skates, but it happened in my Cessna.  Oil didn’t spray, but it leaked profusely onto my instructors pants until we could get it back on the ground.  I do believe that keeping gas and oil out of the cockpit is a good thing,, but by itself is not enough reason for an engine monitor.  That said,, there are still plenty of reasons to adequately justify an engine monitor, but I probably would never have known the value if there would not have been One already in my F when I bought it.

There are so many things that you could do without, but find to be really useful once you fly with it.  There are even things that are calculated for you rather than raw values.  An example is % Power and Gallons per hour.  Really good information to have already calculated and at your finger tips.

 

I agree, and love the 830 that I put in. It has helped in a number of things, including letting me know exactly which plug was bad when my engine started running a little rough on a cross country trip. I always carry a spare plug, torque wrench, and other tools to change out a plug. It was fortunately a bottom plug and took me all of about 10 minutes to pull the cowl cheek, replace the plug, and button everything all back up. Without the engine monitor it would not have been as easy a diagnosis.

I use my 830 much more than I ever anticipated, as you say it is extremely useful.

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Yeah Skates, I miss the side panels that were on my C.  The J cowl I have is not terribly bad to remove and replace but the C/D is easier to deal with in most cases because you can pull one side panel quickly for quick access as long as you know where it s you need access.

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8 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

my bet its the usual suspect, the tappets with part numbers from the cam to be found in the suction screen. They are such a high quality part....

While I certainly haven’t seen it all, I’ve never seen a cam and lifter failure shed long shiny aluminum like slivers.  

Clarence

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9 hours ago, TheLachlan said:

The CFI I was using was a young guy but with many hours, and no he was not Mooney specific. I cant blame him for me going along with the assumption though, its my plane and I should have had the clarity to get that checked out right away. I like the idea of doing a JPI 900 and dual G5's, that would clean up the panel tremendously. I will wait to hear back from inspection though first and see what the engine verdict is. The turbo was sent away too as well as the prop. I will probably end up taking the plastics out and either painting or wrapping them myself, and replacing carpet with a SCS kit with the stiff side panels. If there is quite abit left over besides that I'm still torn.. dual G5's saves money on the engine rebuild... JPI 900 is less expensive but does not have the added benefit of getting rid of vacuum.. Would love to be able to rearrange the panel to be able to mount the 396 in the panel as well. Also not sure how long we will keep this plane, I'm thinking at least 1-2 years but not sure beyond that, may want to upgrade at that point but I really a hard time knowing because we have not started to fly as a family yet, wife and what will be a 2 and 3 yr old.

 

Scenario: I only keep it a year or 2 and put about 300hrs on during that time before I upgrade to a different plane. Would you still mess with the avionics at all or leave it be?

Dual G-5’s are about $5000 plus installation, a 215CC vacuum pump is about $500, I don’t see the savings?

Clarence

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8 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

1) had the MP vacuum line break in half spilling the vacuum everywhere....

2) had the magnetic compass drip near my knee... dumping a drip of kerosene somewhere... you see something go by... but can’t figure out what it was... for a while...

3) knowing that systems fail... having an OilP line or FuelP line dump their contents into the cabin is just unappreciated...

4) The reason we have a firewall... is to keep flames on one side, people on the other...  the 60s left some fine detail out...

5) With electronic engine monitors we get to complete the job....

6) Now that we handled the instrument panel issues...

Know that there are some pretty large fuel lines that pass by the cabin area that we don’t see very often... find the rubber connector on the fuel lines to see how original they are... take a look at the fuel sender seal to see how cork like it is...   these are really outside of the cabin, but separate the occupants from the leaks with a piece of fabric or plastic depending on the age of the plane...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 3 weeks later...

Inspection came back.

Camshaft is what the metal was so what will be extra besides the regular overhaul is:

Camshaft

Prop Governor

Crankshaft Gear

Overhaul Scavenge pump

 

They also found some damage to the case, but they think it is repairable, they have sent it off and it will take 4-6 weeks to get done I believe. I've decided not to spend anything extra in avionics besides maybe the upgrade to the JPI. I'll paint the plastics and most likely replace the carpet and call it good. Hopefully I'm flying in 2 months...

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Dual G-5’s are about $5000 plus installation, a 215CC vacuum pump is about $500, I don’t see the savings?
Clarence

That’s $500 every 500+ hours. I guess it depends on G5 failure rate.
There’s also savings in weight, especially for those that have backup vacuum systems. I got +20lbs of useful load back after installing G5s, and removing:
Electric backup 12lbs
Vacuum system 7lbs
HSI 5lbs
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On 8/30/2019 at 10:32 AM, Skates97 said:

I have been hearing this reasoning from many different people. It comes up in almost every discussion about engine monitors that I have seen for the three years I have been on MS. Can someone provide some instances of the oil or pressure lines failing on the cabin side of the firewall and spraying oil/fuel inside the cabin? Yes, that would be a terrible day, and getting those lines out of the cabin would be better than keeping them inside it, but I am just curious if there are recorded instances of it happening.

I have a 1963 C model.  Flying home from a long cross country one afternoon, I was about 5 minutes from my home field when I got an awful fuel smell in the cabin.  Just all of a sudden without warning.  After landing, it turns out there was a metal fuel line coming through the firewall near the pilot rudder pedals.  It passed through the firewall and over the years I guess the grommet that protected the metal line from the firewall wore out and metal was rubbing on metal.  It put a very fine slice in the metal fuel line and eventually failed spraying fuel into the cockpit  but mostly back out the hole down the firewall on the engine side.  They replaced this line with a new one and all was well.  I have since installed an EDM 900 so hopefully all of that is out of the cockpit now.

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10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Welcome back, TL...

What is the scavenge pump you are referring to?

The name scavenge usually refers to an oil pump related to a turbo system...

Best regards,

-a-

I believe this will be for the turbo then, also the turbo has already been rebuilt and they got that back already. 

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1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said:

I have a 1963 C model.  Flying home from a long cross country one afternoon, I was about 5 minutes from my home field when I got an awful fuel smell in the cabin.  Just all of a sudden without warning.  After landing, it turns out there was a metal fuel line coming through the firewall near the pilot rudder pedals.  It passed through the firewall and over the years I guess the grommet that protected the metal line from the firewall wore out and metal was rubbing on metal.  It put a very fine slice in the metal fuel line and eventually failed spraying fuel into the cockpit  but mostly back out the hole down the firewall on the engine side.  They replaced this line with a new one and all was well.  I have since installed an EDM 900 so hopefully all of that is out of the cockpit now.

Yes, but I don't believe that line goes to the fuel pressure gauge. On mine the line to the fuel pressure gauge comes off the carb and goes through the firewall over on the rh side to the gauge.The EDM 900 would eliminate the line to the fuel pressure gauge as well as the one to the oil pressure gauge, but I don't think it would eliminate the one you are talking about.

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27 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Yes, but I don't believe that line goes to the fuel pressure gauge. On mine the line to the fuel pressure gauge comes off the carb and goes through the firewall over on the rh side to the gauge.The EDM 900 would eliminate the line to the fuel pressure gauge as well as the one to the oil pressure gauge, but I don't think it would eliminate the one you are talking about.

That line comes from the gascolator/tanks and is still vulnerable with the new JPI. 

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Get to know the fuel hazards in the cabin...

The fuelP gauge is tiny compared to the rest...

Nice to have the fuelP sensor on the other side of the firewall.  Just because you can...

 

TL,

When you get a chance, it would be helpful for you to update some of your avatar data...  the help you get will be a bit better when people know what you are flying...

We have a couple of people around here with TN’d M20Fs...

Their Insight May be very beneficial if they only know what you are rebuilding... :)

Best regards,

-a- 

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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Get to know the fuel hazards in the cabin...

The fuelP gauge is tiny compared to the rest...

Nice to have the fuelP sensor on the other side of the firewall.  Just because you can...

 

TL,

When you get a chance, it would be helpful for you to update some of your avatar data...  the help you get will be a bit better when people know what you are flying...

We have a couple of people around here with TN’d M20Fs...

Their Insight May be very beneficial if they only know what you are rebuilding... :)

Best regards,

-a- 

Thank you for the tip, it is now updated.

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Just talked to the bank, they want a new appraisal done on the plane now with the new engine and the place that they have wants to charge me $1,750 to appraise it going off pictures and invoices.... Does anybody know of a licensed appraiser that would do this for less? I'm not very familiar with this process but to charge that amount for not even physically looking at the plane and just going off a few pictures and invoices seems awfully steep to me.

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6 hours ago, TheLachlan said:

Just talked to the bank, they want a new appraisal done on the plane now with the new engine and the place that they have wants to charge me $1,750 to appraise it going off pictures and invoices.... Does anybody know of a licensed appraiser that would do this for less? I'm not very familiar with this process but to charge that amount for not even physically looking at the plane and just going off a few pictures and invoices seems awfully steep to me.

Try an AOPA Vref with the hours reset to 0. Give them a copy of where it was prior to rebuild. Make sure to add in any new equipment. 

If you are lucky, they will accept it.

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