Oldguy Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 I need to pull my GPS out and send it off, but I will also need to make a VFR flight before it gets back. I know my Aspen PFD and autopilot will not be 100% (like 0% for the A/P), but I was thinking I could still fly my plane VFR. The avionics guy out at our airport said because of the interconnect (?) between the Aspen and the GPS, once I pulled out the GPS, the plane would be grounded as not airworthy. If I still had all steam gauges, I would disagree with confidence, but is he correct in his statement? I will still have my airspeed indicator, altimeter, Aspen PFD (reduced functionality?), Sandia 340A Quattro, and KX 165. I am not looking to go out and make a 2 hour VFR flight, but will need to go into a Class C airport VFR about 20 minutes away (BHM). Can I get some feedback from folks to help me settle this? I cannot be grounded as the flight is not optional, and the timing of everything is also set in stone. TIA for any and all responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 John, someone will chime in with more authority but I will comment that I flew down to my avionics shop 10 days ago and had the Aspen pulled to go to the factory for MAX upgrade. I flew back VFR with the shop owners blessing. Robbie is a stickler for the rules. Without the Aspen I have no DG or VSI. I do have ASI,, Altimeter, AI, T&B. The autopilot has no NAV or HDG input so it is only able to provide Alt. Hld. and a wing leveler. I also have the GTN so I can hand fly the magenta course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Oldguy said: I need to pull my GPS out and send it off, but I will also need to make a VFR flight before it gets back. I know my Aspen PFD and autopilot will not be 100% (like 0% for the A/P), but I was thinking I could still fly my plane VFR. The avionics guy out at our airport said because of the interconnect (?) between the Aspen and the GPS, once I pulled out the GPS, the plane would be grounded as not airworthy. If I still had all steam gauges, I would disagree with confidence, but is he correct in his statement? I will still have my airspeed indicator, altimeter, Aspen PFD (reduced functionality?), Sandia 340A Quattro, and KX 165. I am not looking to go out and make a 2 hour VFR flight, but will need to go into a Class C airport VFR about 20 minutes away (BHM). Can I get some feedback from folks to help me settle this? I cannot be grounded as the flight is not optional, and the timing of everything is also set in stone. TIA for any and all responses. Huh. It seems clear you are legal for flight since airworthiness is determined by you, not him. You're allowed to pull the GPS (if it's tray-mounted) yourself, so if you think the airplane is still airworthy, his opinion matters little in this case. For VFR, you'll obviously need to know that all the VFR functionality is intact. You also need a transponder in Class C 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Medders Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 See 14CFR91.205(b). You are good if you meet the FAR requirements and the removed equipment is not covered by an AFM or STC limitation. David 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 5 hours ago, David Medders said: See 14CFR91.205(b). You are good if you meet the FAR requirements and the removed equipment is not covered by an AFM or STC limitation. David Agree. The Aspen AFM Supplement Limitations section mentions that the RSM GPS is for emergency use only, but you have enough other instruments that you don't need the PFD anyway. There are no limitations in the STC related to a functioning GPS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khedrei Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 You know what they say... it's always easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. As far as I can tell, you meet the required equipement list in Canada for daytime VFR. Not sure if the FAA is the same but we seem to be stricter than they are with most regs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Me thinks there is Mooney Operators Manual that could help in this discussion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 You guys are good! The POH does reference the required equipment that is required for VFR, IFR, and night flights... In an overly simplistic way... we get trained in the tomato-flames... and grab card.... As PIC, review the functionality of what you have, to make sure the missing equipment isn’t affecting anything else... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamR Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Wouldn't technically you have to redo the aircraft weight and balance sheet? That should be simple enough as you just delete the GPS line, re-calc (do the recalc yourself...I see so many errors by A&P doing 8th grade math) and have it signed by an A&P. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylw314 Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, WilliamR said: Wouldn't technically you have to redo the aircraft weight and balance sheet? That should be simple enough as you just delete the GPS line, re-calc (do the recalc yourself...I see so many errors by A&P doing 8th grade math) and have it signed by an A&P. William Maaaaaaybe? Technically it only needs to be reviewed at annual, or any time an A&P changes something that would substantially change performance. If the owner (non-A&P) changes something, the onus is on the owner to determine if the W&B needs to be recalculated, which does need to be done by an A&P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamR Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Fair enough and would agree on things not listed on the w&b sheet. Reupholstering the seats is a great example. But if it's on the w&b sheet and the equipment is not there then the w&b is wrong. Maybe my proposition is conservative but neither right nor wrong. This came up at a flight school where I worked. I refused the flight as the GPS was removed but no new w&b. The context between my CFI experience with a student and the OP's is certainly different and has an impact. Of course, I've never done a short flight where every part of the plane and paper work wasn't perfect in every way Ha! William 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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