1976 M20F Panel Upgrade

[jerrodmonaghan]

If you had money to spend on this panel where would you put it? I don’t want to over spend on a plane that is not my forever plane but my panel needs help! Thanks

 

$20k

 

$30k?

 

$40k?

 

Beyond that I’ll probably fly a new bird....

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

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[Mjknick@gmail.com]

How’s the auto pilot doing?


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[Mjknick@gmail.com]

A couple G5’s and a Garmin GTN650 and if the Auto pilot works that should make a decent machine. Maybe a JPI engine monitor would be great too.


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[MIm20c]

I’d start with a Garmin 355 gps/com to replace one of the 170’s, a used 330es or similar for adsb out, and a basic jpi/ei engine monitor. After that (could be years later) make a decision about what AP you want and get a panel to go with it. 

[gsxrpilot]

I always say I wouldn't fly without an engine monitor. And this case is no different. It would be my first upgrade. But as the panel needs so much I'd seriously consider an Insight G2 instead of a JPI. It would cover CHT/EGT, LOP, FuelFlow, data logging and a few other things, but wouldn't replace all your engine gauges. But it's cheap.

Of course for the extra $40K or even $30K you could probably fly an F that has all the work already done.

[Yetti]

For around 30K you could dynon skyview....   Has engine monitor.  ADSB.  6 pack, new radios. It looks plausible to use the ARINC 429 output to connect to the Brittian system that you have assuming it is working.

 

 

[Oldguy]

Engine monitor (G2 Insight for a "not forever" plane), Transponder w/ADSB capability (GTX 345 w/GPS), Audio panel w/intercom, and one new-ish radio.

Shop for these and contact @Alan Fox to see what he might have for you.

Oh yeah, pull the ADF and anything else not needed.

If it is not your forever plane, how long will you have and what will you use it to do before selling? Might change the calculus on what to install.

[gsxrpilot]

3 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Shop for these and contact @Alan Fox to see what he might have for you.

Yes! Whatever you do, don't pay retail. 

Mr. Fox,
Barnstormers
@AvionicsSource
Beechtalk
Ebay

There are ways to do it cheaper...

[jerrodmonaghan]

My AP has been hit or miss for over a year... comes and goes. I would anticipate owning this plane 3-5 years until moving on.

I’ve done the engine 20hrs ago, tanks sealed, pucks done, so I’ve got some big ticket items completed. I have a paint scheme picked out and interior deposit made. Again, I plan on making this a very solid platform for anyone wanting an F 3-5 years from now. I would expect to be in a 252 by then if I can find one.

I am seriously appreciating each and every idea being given. Please keep them coming!


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[ArtVandelay]

1st, what works and what doesn’t (or what don’t you use)
2nd, VFR only or do you fly IFR?
3rd, an engine monitor can save you money or even save your life, I consider it a must have.


Tom

[jerrodmonaghan]

So far I am sold 100% on an engine monitor. So which one exactly do you guys like? I’ll order one today.


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[gsxrpilot]

Obviously your plane your money. Having said that if I were looking at your plane 3-5 years from now, I wouldn't care about the paint or interior. If I'm paying for paint and interior, I'd rather pick out the colors myself. 

But I would care about that panel. So just me, but I'd spend the money on autopilot, WAAS GPS, Coms, and Engine monitor.

Just my $0.02

My first choice for engine monitor would be the EDM-900 as it allows you to remove ALL factory engine gauges. It's once and done. No more engine gauge issues... like your Tach which reads 200 low.

You could save about $2000 by going with an Insight G2. It will give you all the stuff you need in an engine monitor to log data, fly LOP, know fuel flow, etc. But it doesn't replace anything except your factory EGT and CHT gauges. 

[RobertGary1]

5 hours ago, Mjknick@gmail.com said:

A couple G5’s and a Garmin GTN650 and if the Auto pilot works that should make a decent machine. Maybe a JPI engine monitor would be great too.


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Dont' even need the 650 anymore.The new 355 takes care of that for much less.

-Robert

[kris_adams]

Pretty sure I'd do a 355, an engine monitor, and adsb...then go fly the wings off of it.

[ArtVandelay]

I 2nd JPI 900 and removing engine instruments:




Tom

[ZuluZulu]

How about a twin touchscreen stack of a GNX 375 (which also takes care of ADS-B) and a GNC 355 (#2 GPS and COM1).  That way you can use one as an MFD, always keeping traffic visible, etc.  Add a new audio panel, dump the ADF to save weight, keep the best remaining radio, and call it a day (since you're already sold on the engine monitor).  Maybe throw in a G5 or two if you're feeling generous to the next future owner.

But if I were you, for a plane I'm selling in 3-5 years anyway, I would be bargain-hunting for avionics deals and only buying new the things I couldn't find for a fair price.  Let the invisible hand of the market decide!  Would that maximize resale value?  Probably not.

[Mjknick@gmail.com]

I can’t keep up with all the latest avionics.


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[rbridges]

"I would anticipate owning this plane 3-5 years until moving on"

 

That's the part that would give me pause, but spending money is an individual's decision.  Knowing I'm unloading it in a few years, I'd probably limit it to certified GPS and engine monitor.  That gives you /G if you're instrument rated, and the engine monitor gives you a better idea of what your plane is doing.  Although you'll lose money on the GPS at selling time, it will give you much better curb appeal to buyers. 

[Niko182]

Personally Id I had a budget of 25 to 30k I would do
 

PAR200B
GNX375
SL30 or for an extra grand a GNC255
Dual G5's
A new panel cutout
Insight G2

That gets ADS-B in and out
WAAS GPS and Ground based Navigation.
Dual Comms
A new audio panel with bluetooth
HSI
no vacuum
A basic engine monitor.

Sell all the old stuff. you should be able to get 1500 to 3000 bucks for the old stuff
Sell the ADF, NAV coms, Audio panel, a dg, CDI, and the vacuum. each part isn't
worth much but together they make up 5 to 15% of the price you're paying.

that is a pretty basic F so you might be able to get 40K to 60k for it and if
you want something substantially better, it going to cost more than 40k to get
something better. The next realistic step up in speed would be a fast 231, 252 or
an ovation, which is going to be somewhere around a 70k step up at least, and
those planes are going to have the same basic avionics. an M20J isn't really a major
step up in speed so if you want something with a noticeable speed difference, it's either
is turbod 360, or jumping with the big bores.

If you plan on upgrading in 3 years, then it 100% isn't worth it however. the good shops right now are booked
at least half a year, and you'll be paying a decent premium to get the avionics in anytime soon. I'd say expect a wait
of 6 months. then you're already down half a year. add another month and a half for the install. so you have a little less
than 2 and a half years to enjoy the newest avionics, and upgrade to an aircraft that most likely is going to have avionics
from the 90's and 00's, and repeat the process again. and in the best case, the plane is going to worth 70k instead of 55k
and you just put in 30k.

[Andy95W]

Ok, I'll be the spoiler.

Why bother with any high dollar items at all?  Install a Uavionix for ADS-B out, put a Garmin Aera 660 on the yoke for GPS, and get a used GDL-39 portable to display traffic and weather on the Aera.  All-in cost will be under $3000 and will do 90% of what you want.  Save the other $10-30,000 for your 252.  

For an engine monitor, another $3000 will get you a nice JPI 730 installed with some bells and whistles.  Let the next guy drop $7,000 to get rid of the factory instruments.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Ok, I'll be the spoiler.

Why bother with any high dollar items at all?  Install a Uavionix for ADS-B out, put a Garmin Aera 660 on the yoke for GPS, and get a used GDL-39 portable to display traffic and weather on the Aera.  All-in cost will be under $3000 and will do 90% of what you want.  Save the other $10-30,000 for your 252.  

For an engine monitor, another $3000 will get you a nice JPI 730 installed with some bells and whistles.  Let the next guy drop $7,000 to get rid of the factory instruments.

Realistically if you plan to fly IFR into the future you need to be able to use LPV approaches. If this is your once-in-20-year upgrade this is the time to do it.

-Robert

[INA201]

Sell it now.  Buy this below or a similar plane that is in good shape and passes a thorough prebuy.  You will then have a plane  that is worth what you have invested in it.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20K+252TSE&listing_id=2340328&s-type=aircraft

 

[McMooney]

hey, that's about where I started with my e,  well I had ADSB.

hmm, If I had to do all over again and hadn't had adsb.

garmin  375  -- adsb, lpv

garmin 255  -- awesome comm/ils/vor, 

, and 1 g5.     -- new cdi is 2000$  might as well get the g5 -- but it cost way more to install.

i'd guess in the ball park of 20k.

 

 

 

[carusoam]

So many options...

1) Check on the inventory at the grim reaper’s shoppe

2) Inventory changes there almost daily...

3) The reaper spends days on the road to bring home some pretty nice hardware.

 

For a non-forever plane... if you are sure it is really staying in the category....

4) Engine monitor... JPI 900 is nice, but the 800s and 700s are really good, at a lower cost... one is primary the other may not be... EI and insight make good equipment used in many Mooneys...

5) Go digital... at least one radio, nav/com....

6) IFR? Go Dynon... GPS/nav/com... best bang for the buck...  go used if you can find one...

7) in the end.... have two independent methods to get to the ground in IMC... An ILS and a WAAS GPS....

8) Digital again... HSI... lots of G5s being added to Mooneys... can be traded later if the plane’s status changes... makes a good back up for high end Big G panels... Aspens May come up on the used market... there is a new version out recently.... nicer but expensive...

9) got an instrument shop in mind? Do they work with used boxes you brought in?

PP thoughts only, just a summary of what I think I read here...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[jerrodmonaghan]

So after some great advice I’ve decided to take the cheapest path presented and have set some goals. Once I have 50 hours logged using a yoke mounted system I’ll make the final decision as to move on to another plane or simply keep what I have and go all in. I’ll do a 100% new panel if I do anything at all at that time. Like many of you.... praying an AP system will be available.

I ordered a pair of King 170B radios to replace the pair I have. Fingers crossed the radios will correct the VOR and ILS heads that are also not working. I also ordered a Sky Beacon Wing Tip solution and already have a Stratus and Foreflight for the yoke. I have a brand new PMA450B in a box ready for install as well. Once I know if the radios fix some of my other bugs I’ll post my results. Thanks again to you all!


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