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Bonanza ditching in the Pacific


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2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Check the bottom of each page of this thread, Tony...

if you don’t press send... it is probably hiding right where you left it.

or maybe you didn’t pay your membership? Or view enough ads?   :)

Best regards,

-a-

-a- your are the consummate gentleman and a treasure to this site. Thanks for the tips, but my snide comment was definitely removed after it received a couple of emoji responses. Nothing vulgar or reprehensible on my part I assure you however this is a common theme amongst my like-minded brethren here. 

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3 hours ago, Tony Starke said:

-a- your are the consummate gentleman and a treasure to this site. Thanks for the tips, but my snide comment was definitely removed after it received a couple of emoji responses. Nothing vulgar or reprehensible on my part I assure you however this is a common theme amongst my like-minded brethren here. 

Yes it is.  I am fine with that as I play in this sandbox and do not really care if I am censored.

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Some people like drama.

Some people don't like drama.

Some people make a donation to be here.

Some people don't make a donation to be here.

Opinions are not facts.

Facts do not have emotions.

Personally, a little drama is a good thing but in this case the "facts," may never be known.  It's really not worth taking a side in a virtually unprovable situation.  I'm not saying don't take a side.  The best drama creators in the workplace, family, or possibly I mean "possibly," in the Pacific ocean will always leave behind a factually unprovable situation.  That is why they are the best. 

So, I am glad these two are safe.  I am glad we have footage of a plane similar to ours landing safely in the ocean.  

Now, if I wanted to add drama and emotion to this post.  "I am glad the pilot chose to be extracted from the water first because his self diagnosed hypothermia was much worse than his thin female passenger."  I am glad I didn't post that though and add more drama.:D

 

 

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12 minutes ago, INA201 said:

Now, if I wanted to add drama and emotion to this post.  "I am glad the pilot chose to be extracted from the water first because his self diagnosed hypothermia was much worse than his thin female passenger."  I am glad I didn't post that though and add more drama.:D

 

I don't think you know when your hypothermia is bad.

 

 

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I am unqualified to make an opinion other than the gentleman's actions in the past, which may be gossip to begin with.  He does appear to seek attention.  If it were intentional then there are coconspirators involved which would make it highly likely that this information would become known.  Strangely,  pilots often seem calm when being interviewed after an event like this then most folks would.  This calmness does tend to make us look too "cool."

Heck, we were setting up for a fly in for the following day and one of my buddies geared up with a lot of folks around(not good timing LOL).  He was the calmest out of all of us.  We were grabbing fire extinguishers and running over in "emergency mode," and he was calm as a cucumber.  It was almost like "what are you guys all excited over?"  I guess when you drain all of the adrenaline out of your body in a ten minute period you become quite calm afterwards.

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For those not on Beechtalk I thought I’d repost David Lesh’s post from last night:

Thanks for the support everyone. A little about myself and the incident:
I've wanted to fly airplanes since I was 3 years old but couldn't afford to. After starting my company (Virtika Outerwear) and making a few bucks, the first thing I did was get my license in the winter of 2009/2010 in the minimum of 36 hours. I then moved to New Zealand that summer and got my NZ pilot's license. After coming home, I immediately purchased a '79 Piper Lance and have accumulated around 900 total hours since then, flying it all around North America, Mexico, and the Bahamas. I got my instrument rating in my Lance and my Sea Plane rating last summer.

I bought my A36 (w/ Western Skyways turbo) around 9 weeks ago and flew it for around 4 hours before it went down for maintenance and upgrades (tip tanks, flap/gap seals, 3 cylinders, and other minor stuff). I then flew it for around 10 hours in CO, to Vegas, and then Cali before the accident flight. The night before the incident flight, I had the fuel truck at Hayward Airport outside of Oakland top off my main tanks (tip tanks were empty). The next morning during my preflight I had to sump each tank 4-5 times to get to clear gas (lots of flakey black sediment in the fuel). I noted this as being more than usual, but nothing to be alarmed of since we all see stuff in our fuel from time to time and I did get to clear fuel after a few sumps. 

We then flew to Monterey and then to a small grass strip on the coast. During a few points in those flights, the fuel flow became unstable which was fixed by turning the boost pump on low. This was unusual, but not alarming from what I have been told about these Bonanzas, particularly the TN's. We landed at Reid Hillview to pick up the 182 (photo plane) and headed out towards the coast in formation. Since I was in trail, the 182 (Owen) was dealing with comms, nav, airspace, transponder, etc). Had I been alone, I would have been higher, talking to ATC, and within gliding distance of shore. 

The motor stopped producing power around 3k AGL as we descended towards the coast. I tried every possible combination of things to get the motor going with no luck. I got a little power out of it when I switched tanks, but then it went dead again. There was no abnormal sound, vibration, etc. Just zero fuel flow and temps went to zero. I told Owen we were going down, I pitched for best glide, and pointed towards the shore. I told my passenger to make sure her seatbelt was tight and to prepare for impact. I would guess I had 30-40 seconds between engine out and hitting the water. I leveled off around 10ft above the water (gear and flaps up), and kept the nose up and let it settle onto the water as gently as possible. If there had been waves I would have landed parallel to them. I knew if there was any wind it was coming from the west, but I wanted to stay pointing east so I wouldn't have to deal with doing a 180. That gave me more time to focus my attention on getting the motor going.

We skipped along for a few hundred feet, there was a little splash in front of us but no real impact (horizontal or vertical). Once we came to a stop, I told her to open the door and get out onto the wing. I followed her onto the wing and then took inventory of what was in the plane that could help us out there on the water. I grabbed a booster seat cushion, my phone, an empty water bottle (with cap on), a puffy jacket, and a few reflective window shades (for floatation and to signal people). We waited on the wing while the plane began taking on water and sinking, I took a few seconds of video. When the plane was near vertical, we were left floating in the water. I would guess it took around 40-50 seconds for the plane to sink enough where we couldn't stand on the wing, and another minute or so until it was completely gone.

There were huge jelly fish everywhere which began stinging us immediately and constantly for the 45 minutes that we were in the water. We had high spirits at first, and figured they would pick us up in 15-20 minutes. We joked about the absurdity of the situation. Kayla was a lifeguard, and handled the entire situation calmly and with my same sick humor. Owen was circling overhead, but had to climb to get radio reception. In doing this, he lost sight of us so I called him on my cell phone and I guided him back to us, giving him 20 degree turns until we has abeam us with us out his left window. 

We were clutching the floating stuff to our chests, I was keeping my phone above water and taking video occasionally while I clutched a pile of window shades, jacket, and water bottle. We tried to stay away from the jelly fish, but it was hard, they were everywhere. A whale breached 50ft away. We worried about being in shark infested water, but were more worried about drowning in the cold water. After 25-30 min we began to get hypothermia and became worried since the Coast Guard wasn't there yet. I tried to text Owen, but my cold hands weren't working so I called him. He said the heli was 15min out. I told him we were getting cold and starting to struggle in the water. I wasn't able to video since I was shaking so badly, I just held my phone as tightly as possible. He later texted me they were 7min out which gave us hope. After around 45min in the water, Kayla spotted the heli coming in under a marine cloud layer. I wasn't able to see the heli for another minute or so because I was shaking so badly I couldn't see straight. I figured that I had another 25-30min in me until I lost control of my limbs, wouldn't be able to grasp the floating stuff, and drowned. I then saw the heli I knew we'd be fine. The heli hovered overhead for a few minutes, it created a lot of wind and waves, making staying above the water much more difficult, I ingested some salt water. We got picked up individually in a basket by the heli and had blankets wrapped around us. 

We flew to SFO (8-10min flight) and went directly to the Coast Guard hanger. We immediately stripped in their hanger and took a 30-40min hot shower, at which point I finally stopped shaking and regained feeling in my body. We formally met and thanked our rescuers and were reunited with Owen and his brother. The Coast Guard gave us dry clothing and we began doing interviews with the local news stations. I slept 3 hours, Owen didn't sleep. We did almost 36 hours of constant interviews and responded to concerned friends and relatives. I then flew commercial back to Denver and continued dealing with the aftermath. I talked to the FAA and NTSB, they say they will look into the gas at Hayward. 

Tomorrow I leave for the east coast to deliver my Lance to it's new owners (sold it last week). I'm excited to fly tomorrow, this is my first trip to the east coast in my plane. I will soon be without an airplane and am in the market for a nice '79-'83 TN A36 Bonanza. Happy flying everyone!

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I stopped reading after these two paragraphs. " I bought my A36 (w/ Western Skyways turbo) around 9 weeks ago and flew it for around 4 hours before it went down for maintenance and upgrades (tip tanks, flap/gap seals, 3 cylinders, and other minor stuff). I then flew it for around 10 hours in CO, to Vegas, and then Cali before the accident flight. The night before the incident flight, I had the fuel truck at Hayward Airport outside of Oakland top off my main tanks (tip tanks were empty). The next morning during my preflight I had to sump each tank 4-5 times to get to clear gas (lots of flakey black sediment in the fuel). I noted this as being more than usual, but nothing to be alarmed of since we all see stuff in our fuel from time to time and I did get to clear fuel after a few sumps. 

We then flew to Monterey and then to a small grass strip on the coast. During a few points in those flights, the fuel flow became unstable which was fixed by turning the boost pump on low. This was unusual, but not alarming from what I have been told about these Bonanzas, particularly the TN's. "

If you are having to take corrective action on your fuel system to keep the plane flying.  Please find a place to land that does not involve a Coast Guard helicopter.

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The Dude lives a dangerous lifestyle. Maybe one of us can reach out to him and volunteer to fly as a Safety Pilot in the Lance so he can brush up on some Instrument skills too. Who would not want to travel with him as PIC? The law of averages clearly doesn’t effect risk takers.

Maybe the risk aversion app software developers can now add another checklist entry, “Dirty fuel? Yes or No”

Where can I buy his clothing line? All of this free advertising has me interested in the product.



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I'd fly with him in a minute. But then I live a dangerous lifestyle also. I fly formation with other dangerous pilots. 


But you do not seem to be careless or reckless...at least from the very little of what I know about you.
The optics of the Bo ditching appear quite dubious, in my opinion. If this happened to you, I seriously doubt anyone would have any suspicion about the circumstances.
It is terrible when a regular persons entire life is characterized by one or two mistakes or inappropriate actions. But after a documented history of incidents involving recklessness and carelessness, it is appropriate to cast doubt on their credibility. Hence my sensational reaction.


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33 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd fly with him in a minute. But then I live a dangerous lifestyle also. I fly formation with other dangerous pilots. :ph34r:

He’s flown with me too.  I should introduce you to him since he also has his plane hangared at BJC and has spent much of his last 900 hours flying in the Colorado mountains.

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd fly with him in a minute. But then I live a dangerous lifestyle also. I fly formation with other dangerous pilots. :ph34r:

Paul,

That is kind of a passive aggressive B.S. statement isn’t it?  I respect you as somebody that accepts the increased risk that comes from formation flying.  This pilot flew after multiple sumps with contamination over the ocean with a passenger without any floatation devices. Would I fly with this guy?  NOPE.

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2 minutes ago, RogueOne said:

Paul,

That is kind of a passive aggressive B.S. statement isn’t it?  I respect you as somebody that accepts the increased risk that comes from formation flying.  This pilot flew after multiple sumps with contamination over the ocean with a passenger without any floatation devices. Would I fly with this guy?  NOPE.

This little guy :ph34r: is my attempt to express "tongue in cheek", a wink, and all those things that get missed in this type of written online exchange. And partially because I've been getting so much shit from the community over the MooneyCaravan and formation flying.

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2 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

This little guy :ph34r: is my attempt to express "tongue in cheek", a wink, and all those things that get missed in this type of written online exchange. And partially because I've been getting so much shit from the community over the MooneyCaravan and formation flying.

I appreciate your clarification.  You do not have any hindsight (based on information provided by pilot) concerns regarding his decision making?  I accept that, if the answer is “I have no concerns”, but I just don’t agree with your assessment.

I am VERY glad that he and his passenger are safe.

Anything that doesn’t kill you is an opportunity to learn.

I saw ZERO reflection into why his decisions were flawed and what he learned from the event.

What I saw was “this is why I did what I did”.  I am in the market for another Beech...

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'd fly with him in a minute. But then I live a dangerous lifestyle also. I fly formation with other dangerous pilots. :ph34r:

I believe this jab is directed in my direction.   thanks @RogueOne for falling on the grenade..... B)

It is an unbelievable amount of lack of life experience to believe that a single point(assuming the plane has just one sump) in a large tank of fluid could get all the trash out.  Did the guy never make mud pies or play with sand in a bucket at the beach growing up?   some one should dive it and just pull the finger screen on the servo or the gas collator screen.

It's an amazing amount of kick the tires and light the fires attitude.   "no srsly dude what could go wrong" and the "no srsly dood someone on the internet said it would be ok to fly the plane like that"

Edited by Yetti
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I certainly do have concerns about his decision making. But I've watched the video he did with Matt Guthmiller, and I've read everything he's posted on Beechtalk. He did say/write previously that next time he wouldn't take off with the debris in the fuel and he's also said that he would have life vests onboard next time. He also said that he never intended to be that low, and out of gliding distance from shore. He also said another place that he should have logged a few more hours in the plane that close to maintenance work.

All of those indicate that he's learned quite a bit from the experience. We all (or at least me) make mistakes and often they look like completely bone head mistakes upon further review. 

The fact that he's young, a youtube content creator, prematurely successful entrepreneur, or has long hair, doesn't bother me at all. The truth is that I have a similar long and adrenaline filled resume. But I'm old and so it all predates youtube, Instagram, and quality video cameras in every pocket.

Since it seems we're based at the same airport, BJC, I'll likely meet the guy one of these days, and I'd likely fly with him. I might convince him to go up with me and learn some proper formation flying procedures, which would have possibly solved the one problem of being too low and too far away from shore. 

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maybe.   I will suggest that most adrenaline junkies (yes I have broken the rules a time or two) are mostly emboldened by getting away with this type of outcome.    Living for the thrill is just part of living.

I was watching a wing suite documentary.   They started with jumping out over the valley, but that was boring so the next step was to see how close you could get to stuff.   Some get too close.   Same with free fall kayak records.    Eventually going higher and higher will kill someone because there really is a too high.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Osman

One day I was riding the motorcycle to go fly the plane.   My wife said "be safe"

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

What did he do wrong, well where do I start:-

1.  Not wearing life jackets (as the RNLI says, “lifejackets, useless unless worn”)

2.  No life raft, had he had one, he would have got out of the water and stopped the hypothermia setting in, plus its easier to see.

Basically i am horrified and extremely angry that he put his passengers life at risk and then the rescue services because of his, can I say, arrogance, or perhaps naive stupidity. Yes I know some people on here know this guy but that should make no difference. In the UK he would be receiving a big bollocking from the rescue services on this one politely titled “things you could improve on sir”

 

bollocking....

The two lakes I have been on have been around 85 degrees water temp....    I think the gulf is around 80 degrees.   I know you can still get hypothermia, but the fish keep trying to get out of the bath tub.

 

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Time to assemble a CB-class emergency raft kit. I already have my eBay acquired life vests. Raft is $10-50, inflator $15+, used ACR PLB $65-150, dye & streamer kits $5-25, mirror $10, duffel bag $1-5.
I’ll need to get authorization and approval from Raptor though.


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2 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I certainly do have concerns about his decision making. But I've watched the video he did with Matt Guthmiller, and I've read everything he's posted on Beechtalk. He did say/write previously that next time he wouldn't take off with the debris in the fuel and he's also said that he would have life vests onboard next time. He also said that he never intended to be that low, and out of gliding distance from shore. He also said another place that he should have logged a few more hours in the plane that close to maintenance work.

All of those indicate that he's learned quite a bit from the experience. We all (or at least me) make mistakes and often they look like completely bone head mistakes upon further review. 

The fact that he's young, a youtube content creator, prematurely successful entrepreneur, or has long hair, doesn't bother me at all. The truth is that I have a similar long and adrenaline filled resume. But I'm old and so it all predates youtube, Instagram, and quality video cameras in every pocket.

Since it seems we're based at the same airport, BJC, I'll likely meet the guy one of these days, and I'd likely fly with him. I might convince him to go up with me and learn some proper formation flying procedures, which would have possibly solved the one problem of being too low and too far away from shore. 

Something good and positive generally comes from something bad and negative!  :D

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I'm old enough to think that it would be pretty difficult to hoodwink me.  His last extensive post was persuasive to me that his situation was not intentional.  It certainly got me thinking, though.  I'm often out at least 10 miles off the coast practicing approaches into both Monterey and Watsonville.  ATC tries to get you down to 2,000 feet before intercept on the Monterey ILS.  Same with the Watsonville GPS 2 approach.  I also request to  remain at 3,000 feet, but I don't think even that would work most of the time.  And often it is IMC in both locations.  It's time to revisit doing those approaches without overwater gear.  I do carry 2 PLBs no matter where I go, but it is time to look into a more comprehensive set of overwater equipment even for slight overwater traverses.

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only thing odd to me was lost power at 3000agl and only had 45seconds before hitting the water.  did he point the nose straight down or do bo's really glide like shit?  Reminds me that I should go out and check the sink rate at best glide.  

He said wind from west which is pretty standard out here.  so if he was pointing back towards shore when the engine quit and with 10:1 glide he should have gotten about 5 miles.  How far offshore at 3000 AGL was he?  I get panicy just going offshore of Camp Pendelton enough to avoid the restricted area.

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