Omaha NE - area Mooney pilots, looking to buy or just see one up close.

[Pilot boy]

Any Mooney owners in the Omaha, NE metro area?  I am looking at purchasing a single engine and would like some speed for longer x countries.  Wondering about the space of the Mooney's interior and useful load.  I've been looking at the C or F(for the cabin) models from the 1960/1970? era - basically a Mooney for around $40/50k.  I'd love to go up with you and pay for some gas or just even sit in the plane on the tarmac to see how it feels for space.

Any estimates on annual cost of keeping a Mooney of this age flying would be very helpful as well.  Am I looking at approximately $1k a month for a maintenance fund excluding hangar and insurance, etc?  Also is 10 GPH a pretty good number to use for fuel on x countries?  What do you estimate your hourly cost of operating your Mooney is?

My goal is Florida x countries with wife and 2 kids.  We currently have 1 baby, but over time we plan to add another.  How long would the kids be comfortable in the back?  To 15 years old etc?

Email:   gringotuanis@hotmail.com

[RogueOne]

I am in Cedar Rapids.  If you get here I will get you up (weather permitting).  Don’t not consider an E-Model.  

 

[RogueOne]

1 hour ago, Pilot boy said:

Any Mooney owners in the Omaha, NE metro area?  I am looking at purchasing a single engine and would like some speed for longer x countries.  Wondering about the space of the Mooney's interior and useful load.  I've been looking at the C or F(for the cabin) models from the 1960/1970? era - basically a Mooney for around $40/50k.  I'd love to go up with you and pay for some gas or just even sit in the plane on the tarmac to see how it feels for space.

Any estimates on annual cost of keeping a Mooney of this age flying would be very helpful as well.  Am I looking at approximately $1k a month for a maintenance fund excluding hangar and insurance, etc?  Also is 10 GPH a pretty good number to use for fuel on x countries?  What do you estimate your hourly cost of operating your Mooney is?

My goal is Florida x countries with wife and 2 kids.  We currently have 1 baby, but over time we plan to add another.  How long would the kids be comfortable in the back?  To 15 years old etc?

Email:   gringotuanis@hotmail.com

My Co-Owner and I each put $200/month into Operating (Hanger/Annual/Insurance) and that $4800 bucks has been MORE than adequate for years.  I commonly burn 9.5-10GPH and see ground speeds commonly of 130-160 knots (depends on winds and altitude).

My kids were fine in back into their teens.  Useful load with full fuel is approximately 750lbs. (People and baggage).

We are above your entry price, but what you will save in your maint. Budget the first year will get you VERY close to our M20E.  Enjoy your search!

[RogueOne]

Hanger $1000; Annual $1500 (plus stuff YOU want); Insurance $1300; Gas at 10/hour; 1-2 oil changes besides annual $150...

[Mcstealth]

1 hour ago, Pilot boy said:

Any Mooney owners in the Omaha, NE metro area?  I am looking at purchasing a single engine and would like some speed for longer x countries.  Wondering about the space of the Mooney's interior and useful load.  I've been looking at the C or F(for the cabin) models from the 1960/1970? era - basically a Mooney for around $40/50k.  I'd love to go up with you and pay for some gas or just even sit in the plane on the tarmac to see how it feels for space.

Any estimates on annual cost of keeping a Mooney of this age flying would be very helpful as well.  Am I looking at approximately $1k a month for a maintenance fund excluding hangar and insurance, etc?  Also is 10 GPH a pretty good number to use for fuel on x countries?  What do you estimate your hourly cost of operating your Mooney is?

My goal is Florida x countries with wife and 2 kids.  We currently have 1 baby, but over time we plan to add another.  How long would the kids be comfortable in the back?  To 15 years old etc?

Email:   gringotuanis@hotmail.com

Welcome to the forum. Thank you for participating.

Please post a hello on the general panel and tell everyone about yourself, or not

Let us know your aviation thoughts and desires, and then lean back and read where everyone shoots you down.  

 

 

[KSMooniac]

You'll get more time to outgrow an F versus a C or E as it provides more backseat leg room and baggage space (5" extra, each). You'll also get 64 vs 52 gallon fuel tanks in the F. All are fine options, though, and you should try to buy the very best individual example you can. My brother and I grew up in the back of a C on long trips until I was maybe 10 or 11. I remember scorching hot 1965 brown vinyl seats in the summer more than cramped legroom.

It is also better to (seemingly) over pay for a good one versus getting a bargain that has not been regularly flying or loved on in the last 5 years. You might save 5 or even 10k at purchase, but 5 years down the road that is insignificant, and might even seem like a fart in the wind if you buy a bad example. We have a ton of shopping/pre-purchase/what do I look for threads here if you settle in with a beverage and the search feature. There are also a few horror stories about bargain planes biting their new owners.

Welcome! I'm Mooney-close in Wichita but don't find myself in Omaha regularly. If you're in my neighborhood anytime I'd happily take you up in my J so you can see for yourself. It is virtually the same as an F interior-wise, and like the C/E in the front seats.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[mike_elliott]

4 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

You'll get more time to outgrow an F versus a C or E as it provides more backseat leg room and baggage space (5" extra, each). You'll also get 64 vs 52 gallon fuel tanks in the F

and a larger gross weight 2740#

[skydvrboy]

12 hours ago, RogueOne said:

My kids were fine in back into their teens.  Useful load with full fuel is approximately 750lbs. (People and baggage).

Wow!  I thought my F had a good full fuel useful load at 683.  I realize I'm hauling around 64 gallons instead of 52. but that would mean your total useful load is 1062, and your empty weight is 1513.  What mods have you done to lighten that bird up?

[RogueOne]

3 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Wow!  I thought my F had a good full fuel useful load at 683.  I realize I'm hauling around 64 gallons instead of 52. but that would mean your total useful load is 1062, and your empty weight is 1513.  What mods have you done to lighten that bird up?

You are right 650 people and stuff after fuel subtracted.  Way to keep me honest

 

[RogueOne]

3 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Wow!  I thought my F had a good full fuel useful load at 683.  I realize I'm hauling around 64 gallons instead of 52. but that would mean your total useful load is 1062, and your empty weight is 1513.  What mods have you done to lighten that bird up?

For my wife and I we have over 250lbs of others available.  No problem for high school kids for a two hour flight with reserves which was our mission.  YMMV.

[Pilot boy]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:18 PM, RogueOne said:

I am in Cedar Rapids.  If you get here I will get you up (weather permitting).  Don’t not consider an E-Model.  

 

I'm doing a lot of flight training in the next few months so maybe I will plan a flight that way and see if it works.  

[Pilot boy]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:11 AM, KSMooniac said:

You'll get more time to outgrow an F versus a C or E as it provides more backseat leg room and baggage space (5" extra, each). You'll also get 64 vs 52 gallon fuel tanks in the F. All are fine options, though, and you should try to buy the very best individual example you can. My brother and I grew up in the back of a C on long trips until I was maybe 10 or 11. I remember scorching hot 1965 brown vinyl seats in the summer more than cramped legroom.

It is also better to (seemingly) over pay for a good one versus getting a bargain that has not been regularly flying or loved on in the last 5 years. You might save 5 or even 10k at purchase, but 5 years down the road that is insignificant, and might even seem like a fart in the wind if you buy a bad example. We have a ton of shopping/pre-purchase/what do I look for threads here if you settle in with a beverage and the search feature. There are also a few horror stories about bargain planes biting their new owners.

Welcome! I'm Mooney-close in Wichita but don't find myself in Omaha regularly. If you're in my neighborhood anytime I'd happily take you up in my J so you can see for yourself. It is virtually the same as an F interior-wise, and like the C/E in the front seats.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Okay thank you.  I am working on instrument and commercial so maybe for another x country ill head down to wichita to see how the J is

[Pilot boy]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:11 AM, KSMooniac said:

You'll get more time to outgrow an F versus a C or E as it provides more backseat leg room and baggage space (5" extra, each). You'll also get 64 vs 52 gallon fuel tanks in the F. All are fine options, though, and you should try to buy the very best individual example you can. My brother and I grew up in the back of a C on long trips until I was maybe 10 or 11. I remember scorching hot 1965 brown vinyl seats in the summer more than cramped legroom.

It is also better to (seemingly) over pay for a good one versus getting a bargain that has not been regularly flying or loved on in the last 5 years. You might save 5 or even 10k at purchase, but 5 years down the road that is insignificant, and might even seem like a fart in the wind if you buy a bad example. We have a ton of shopping/pre-purchase/what do I look for threads here if you settle in with a beverage and the search feature. There are also a few horror stories about bargain planes biting their new owners.

Welcome! I'm Mooney-close in Wichita but don't find myself in Omaha regularly. If you're in my neighborhood anytime I'd happily take you up in my J so you can see for yourself. It is virtually the same as an F interior-wise, and like the C/E in the front seats.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Can you hazard a guess as to how much (aside from fuel) it costs you to keep the Mooney around each year?  Rogue One gave me some good figures to go off - but how do yours compare?  I'm a bit concerned to bite off more than I can chew and the wife is a CPA and this has become a hard sell

[Pilot boy]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:22 PM, skydvrboy said:

Wow!  I thought my F had a good full fuel useful load at 683.  I realize I'm hauling around 64 gallons instead of 52. but that would mean your total useful load is 1062, and your empty weight is 1513.  What mods have you done to lighten that bird up?

Can you hazard a guess as to how much (aside from fuel) it costs you to keep the Mooney around each year?  Rogue One gave me some good figures to go off - but how do yours compare?  I'm a bit concerned to bite off more than I can chew and the wife is a CPA and this has become a hard sell   I'm duplicate quoting so I apologize but I want as many different owners and their planes to comment here as possible.  

[carusoam]

See the ball... be the ball... make, make it happen!   - some golf movie... 

1) no hard sell is going to work...

2) Good logic will cover most of it... teamwork is everything...

3) Well thought out finances are pretty easy to put together...

4) What you need...

• Capital costs vs. Fixed costs vs. operational costs...

 

Capital cost is all about how you finance or pay cash for the machine...

• Acquisition costs include... search, visit, PPI, Transition Training, delivery flight...
• Finding a plane near home saves a lot of money...
• Finding a known plane by a known MSer... limits some of the risks...
• Using a known Mooney broker can also limit some of the risks...
• Paying cash is pretty much the lowest cost route... financing is pretty low cost this year...

 

Fixed costs are due whether you fly or not...

• Annual insurance... about 2k. 3k for a newbie...
• Annual storage or tie-down... about 6k. In my neighborhood.
• Annual Maintenance... 3k. Also in my neighborhood... 1st annuals can be extra costly catching things up...

 

Variable cost depend on all your flying adventures...

• hours per year... target about 100hrs 
• gallons per hour... 10gph makes a good starting point... plan to fly about 150mph...
• price of fuel per gallon... $4 per gallon seems to be the current price in the best locations...
• oil changes twice each year?  Depending on your skill...

Throw in some additional funds...

• training
• fly-ins 
• Unwanted surprises...

Getting the wife on board early can be very helpful for where you are going...

UPOD.... under promise, over deliver.... (consider this technique while closing the deal with your finance administrator...)

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

I'm an engineer, am good at math, but I follow a strict rule of never adding it all up!

 

Having said that, you're likely interested in fixed costs mostly...then your usage costs are mostly fuel and whatever reserve you might want to include. I don't. But you need to be able to pay for a big expense at any time...either have cash or ability to get a loan (not a credit card!)

 

Consider:

Hangar...variable all over the country. $100-$500/mo. $325 for me, nice big t hangar at a muni airport

Insurance...variable with experience, location, etc. $1200 for me/yr

IFR database subscription... $600 for dual WAAS/yr for me

Property taxes...none in KS for me, YMMV

Annual...variable based on shop/location/owner assist factor, etc. $400 for me this year doing 90% of it myself under supervision. Figure $1500-2000 for a regular shop annual with no squawks

Oil and filters... Maybe $300-400/yr for me flying 100 hrs/yr and doing my own changes

Ipad subscription, satellite weather subscription...whatever you choose

 

That gets you to the starting line. Maybe you need tires, gear donuts, fuel tank work, a gyro overhaul, a new $300 battery, an engine overhaul, or similar in any given year. Or your wife wants a new interior. Or you want a new GPS or PFD...now you're in the 5-figure checks easily. Most planes come with an excess money detector...be warned.

 

I wouldn't give it up, though! The ability to go hundreds of miles away on a weekend trip at $0.25/mile in fuel costs while going 175 MPH and bringing friends or the dogs or bicycles is worth every penny.

 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

First thing for me is that I never count my various subscriptions. ForeFlight, etc. I'd do that whether I owned an airplane or not, so I don't count it.

Hangar - $3000/year
Insurance - $800/year
Annuals - $2000/year

With my M20C I figured $10,000 a year allowed me to fly as much as I wanted to fly.

With the M20K, I'm spending closer to $20K a year, but flying a lot more.

[Mcstealth]

6 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

First thing for me is that I never count my various subscriptions. ForeFlight, etc. I'd do that whether I owned an airplane or not, so I don't count it.

Hangar - $3000/year
Insurance - $800/year
Annuals - $2000/year

With my M20C I figured $10,000 a year allowed me to fly as much as I wanted to fly.

With the M20K, I'm spending closer to $20K a year, but flying a lot more.

Your insurance is only that?

(Don't end your sentence with a preposition I hear my English teacher yelling in my ear) 

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, Mcstealth said:

Your insurance is only that?

(Don't end your sentence with a preposition I hear my English teacher yelling in my ear) 

It was on my $60K C. It's a bit more on the K.

[skydvrboy]

I try to keep pretty good tabs on what I'm spending for the plane... and yes, I cringe a little when I see the numbers.

Fixed Costs

Insurance $1206 (no IR)

Annual $1200 (inspection only, no repairs)

Hangar $1,116 (Nice T-Hangar, concrete floor, electrical) That will be one of the cheapest on here, but I'm still bitchin' that they raised my rent $4/mo this year.

Total $3522/yr ($35.22/hr)

Variable Costs

Fuel $36/hr (planned, but I usually beat that just slightly)  I plan 9 GPH and average about $4/gal for fuel.  $36/hr (planned, but I usually beat that just slightly)

Oil and oil changes $2.15/hr.  I fly about 100 hrs/yr, so 2 oil changes, which I do myself.  Oil and oil changes $2.15/hr.

Maintenance - This one makes me cry, mainly because I bought a plane with some "deferred" maintenance items that weren't caught in the pre-buy.  First annual was $8200 (not including the inspection), second was more reasonable $2400 (again w/o inspection).  In between I replaced the gear discs and main tires/tubes and installed a new starter $3300.  So far, about $70/hr.

Eddy Current Inspection = $2/hr

Total $111/hr (rounded up due to stuff I probably forgot to include)

Upgrades

This one is entirely up to you, but some upgrades NEED to be done.  The sky's the limit, but here's what I've done or have on my immediate radar.

CO Monitor $200 - I went with the top of the line Sensorcon... no regrets!

LED Landing Light $100 (used) Not needed but nice to have.

Shoulder Harnesses $400+Shipping (Hooker Harness)  Just ordered today! I spent forever trying to convince my wife we needed to add these to the plane totally being ignored.  Then just this week she tells me out of the blue "I'm not flying with you again until you order those shoulder harnesses!"

Engine Monitor $TBD