ADS-B Fleet Installation Progress

[Jerry 5TJ]

GA ADS-B upgrades continue and the rate per month is slowly rising.

Source: FAA Data

The curve probably can’t “spike” later this year as shops appear to be fully booked already so there’s no spare capacity.  

Extrapolating the curve — No more than about 20,000 more GA planes will be updated by the end of this year.  

AOPA estimates about 215,000 active GA airplanes.  

AOPA Data

 

[kortopates]

I know there is a significant number of planes based under the class B viel I operate out of still without it. I am wondering by what approximate date will people that don't yet have an installation date be grounded for some time period. But the FAA waiver website could also keep them flying without it. Guess we'll know in a few months.


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Edited August 7, 2019 by kortopates

[Rjfanjet]

I'm getting mine done starting Monday. Booked for 2 months!

[FloridaMan]

Seems the uavionix products are in stock at a lot of places and do avionics shops have to do the installs? 

[Skates97]

If you are a little handy and have an AP/IA to work with you have options. I bought the GTX335 along with the wiring harness, GAE12 encoder and GA35 antenna. Made the RG400 cables, installed everything, and had my AP/IA sign off on it. Even learned how to fill out at 337 in the process. 

If you have a good transponder you can do the Skybeacon without much trouble. I was not sure how long my old Narco would keep working so just went ahead with the install of the new transponder.

[MooneyMitch]

3 hours ago, kortopates said:

I know there is a significant number of planes based under the class B viel I operate out of. I am wondering by what approximate date will be people that don't yet have an installation date be grounded for some time period. But FAA waiver website could also keep them flying without it. Guess we'll know in a few months.


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Based on what I’ve been reading, FAA is not going to be handing out waivers freely.

[Hank]

Some of us aren't planning to equip. ATL won't let me i side the Bravo anyway, unless my destination is there (hasn't been so far . . . ). Since I already can't play, I'm not gonna pay to keep not playing.

[DanM20C]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Some of us aren't planning to equip. ATL won't let me i side the Bravo anyway, unless my destination is there (hasn't been so far . . . ). Since I already can't play, I'm not gonna pay to keep not playing.

Hank,  

Do you fly above 10K?  10 and 11K were my preferred cruising altitudes with my C. Unfortunately above 10 will be a no go without adsb.

Cheers,

Dan 

[skydvrboy]

12 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

Seems the uavionix products are in stock at a lot of places and do avionics shops have to do the installs? 

I installed my own with the approval of my IA.  He looked at it, gave a slight tug to make sure it was solid, asked if it worked, and signed it off.

[steingar]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Some of us aren't planning to equip. ATL won't let me i side the Bravo anyway, unless my destination is there (hasn't been so far . . . ). Since I already can't play, I'm not gonna pay to keep not playing.

Can’t penetrate the veil, can’t go over or under. ATL is massive airspace, long way around even for a Mooney.

[Sandman993]

6 minutes ago, steingar said:

Can’t penetrate the veil, can’t go over or under. ATL is massive airspace, long way around even for a Mooney.

It's simple...they all betting on an extention. FAA already did it with mode c a long time ago. I had Adsb done 2 yrs ago, before the avionics shop hands turned into depressed, overwhelmed zombies. But I can't get anything done because everyone is swamped.

[steingar]

1 minute ago, Sandman993 said:

It's simple...they all betting on an extention. FAA already did it with mode c a long time ago. I had Adsb done 2 yrs ago, before the avionics shop hands turned into depressed, overwhelmed zombies. But I can't get anything done because everyone is swamped.

That’s not a bet I’d take. The FAA has said very publicly there’ll be no extensions. There’s going to be a LOT of grounded aircraft on January 1. 2008 all over again.

 

[bob865]

22 minutes ago, steingar said:

Can’t penetrate the veil, can’t go over or under. ATL is massive airspace, long way around even for a Mooney.

It's amazing how little a deviation around a Bravo airspace actually costs.  Going to my parents house runs me right through the ATL Bravo but I can deviate to just outside and it only costs me 2 minutes and 3 miles.  Saw the same thing going around the Restricted areas and MOAs of South Georgia and the Orlando Bravo when I brought my plane back from getting her tanks resealed.

175nm 1hr 19min through

178nm 1 hr 21min around

[jaylw314]

43 minutes ago, bob865 said:

It's amazing how little a deviation around a Bravo airspace actually costs.  Going to my parents house runs me right through the ATL Bravo but I can deviate to just outside and it only costs me 2 minutes and 3 miles.  Saw the same thing going around the Restricted areas and MOAs of South Georgia and the Orlando Bravo when I brought my plane back from getting her tanks resealed.

175nm 1hr 19min through

178nm 1 hr 21min around

It costs a lot if your destination is inside the mode C circle, though....

[Hank]

52 minutes ago, bob865 said:

It's amazing how little a deviation around a Bravo airspace actually costs.  Going to my parents house runs me right through the ATL Bravo but I can deviate to just outside and it only costs me 2 minutes and 3 miles.  Saw the same thing going around the Restricted areas and MOAs of South Georgia and the Orlando Bravo when I brought my plane back from getting her tanks resealed.

175nm 1hr 19min through

178nm 1 hr 21min around

It all depends on your flight path. KAUO-->33A is right over KATL, going around the Bravo adds ~25 mins. Since it goes to 13K, over the top isn't much of an option in my C.

VFR:  "stay out of the Bravo" (NOT "remain clear".)

IFR:  it's always HEFIN or CINKA (sometimes Approach is nice and lets me choose which one).

Like the rest of Atlanta, there's too many transplanted Yankees in ATL Approach . . . .

[kortopates]

11 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Based on what I’ve been reading, FAA is not going to be handing out waivers freely.

Apparently it won't be that difficult at first to get a waiver. I can't find the mention of the website I read they were creating to allow automated granting of  exception waivers, but they are planning to enable those in need per flight exception waivers per 91.225(g)(2) as long as you request and are approved at least 1 hr in advance. They say they won't grant airborne waivers unless your Adbs-B equip fails in flight like a transponder failing today in flight. But here is an AOPA article describing it: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/april/02/faa-issues-policy-for-non-ads-b-aircraft 

[Mooneymite]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

Some of us aren't planning to equip. ATL won't let me i side the Bravo anyway, unless my destination is there (hasn't been so far . . . ). Since I already can't play, I'm not gonna pay to keep not playing.

Hank, how will you get to Aircraft Spruce at FFC without ADS-B?

[jaylw314]

FWIW, I think our local TRACON (Cascade Approach) has gotten their ADS-B equipment set up.  About a year ago, when I asked if they could see my ADS-B info, they said they could not.  A couple months ago, I switched to their frequency on a trip to ask for flight following, and they called me in the blind by my call sign for a traffic alert even before I had a chance.  That was kind of creepy, but clearly they now are able to see my ADS-B call sign.

So it does seem like at least some controllers have gotten their equipment set up in the recent past, so I'm guessing their ramping up on their end for January...

[kortopates]

7 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

FWIW, I think our local TRACON (Cascade Approach) has gotten their ADS-B equipment set up.  About a year ago, when I asked if they could see my ADS-B info, they said they could not.  A couple months ago, I switched to their frequency on a trip to ask for flight following, and they called me in the blind by my call sign for a traffic alert even before I had a chance.  That was kind of creepy, but clearly they now are able to see my ADS-B call sign.

So it does seem like at least some controllers have gotten their equipment set up in the recent past, so I'm guessing their ramping up on their end for January...

Yes, I am guessing they all have it now since mine has it, and I pretty sure they did mine last because its the largest being a Super TRACON of actually 6 in one by their definition. And in indeed, they are using Ads-B to initiate contact with people that might be hanging close where they are vectoring traffic onto approaches and other congested areas hoping to make them a participant rather than having to vector everyone else around them.  

[jaylw314]

5 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Yes, I am guessing they all have it now since mine has it, and I pretty sure they did mine last because its the largest being a Super TRACON of actually 6 in one by their definition. And in indeed, they are using Ads-B to initiate contact with people that might be hanging close where they are vectoring traffic onto approaches and other congested areas hoping to make them a participant rather than having to vector everyone else around them.  

That's funny they're doing that, I was a little wierded out by that when it happened 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

That’s not a bet I’d take. The FAA has said very publicly there’ll be no extensions. There’s going to be a LOT of grounded aircraft on January 1. 2008 all over again.

 

No extensions for GA because we're all rich airplane owners. But airlines with 8 or 9-digit quarterly profits all get extensions just by asking . . . .

[Bob - S50]

40 minutes ago, Hank said:

No extensions for GA because we're all rich airplane owners. But airlines with 8 or 9-digit quarterly profits all get extensions just by asking . . . .

I think the airlines are getting waivers for the WAAS part.  I think they still have to have ADS-B but will use IRS/DME/DME/baro-nav for input until the manufacturer can get a WAAS source approved.

[Shadrach]

15 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Based on what I’ve been reading, FAA is not going to be handing out waivers freely.

Do tell? Have a link?   I’ve read some tough talk but with just ~7% of the fleet being updated by 2020 and all avionics shops booked through the deadline, I think waivers or an extension is likely.  The alternative would have a very negative effect on the GA economy. Waivers would be more expensive and create more paperwork.  You don’t set out to construct a new building and pledge to push it into service on a hard date whether or not the roof has been installed. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Shadrach

[Pritch]

In and out done almost 2 years ago, wouldn't fly without it.

Pritch

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

Do tell? Have a link?   I’ve read some tough talk but with just ~7% of the fleet being updated by 2020 and all avionics shops booked through the deadline, I think waivers or an extension is likely.  The alternative would have a very negative effect on the GA economy. Waivers would be more expensive and create more paperwork.  You don’t set out to construct a new building and pledge to push it into service on a hard date whether or not the roof has been installed. 

It’s quite possible we’ve read the same tough talk stuff.

As Paul wrote, “ guess we’ll know more in a few months “.