At first annual, have found illegal engine modifications

[hmasing]

My mechanic is finding all sorts of illegal engine modifications on my plane at my first annual, and I'm not sure what my course of action is.

For example, the Lycoming IO-360-A1A specs a solid oil line to the prop governor.  The engine has a flex line.  There are hoses from NAPA that are not aeronautical rated.  We've found a homemade bracket for the governor made of bent angle iron and nuts that are clearly not for aviation.  We've found a completely improper air/oil separator weld that is not even close to the specs from the manufacturer.  We've found incorrect bolts used in the prop governor (pipe fitted bolts should not be used in this application), and we're questioning the logbook entries by the A&P and owner.

Add to this, the engine was theoretically 220 hours SMOH when I bought it, I am 100% positive that these alterations are all from the prior owner and his mechanic friend.  When I bought the plane, it had a "fresh annual", which upon questioning was not an annual at all, but a pen-f*ck annual.  The gear wasn't swung, and none of the inspection panels were removed in the few hours the mechanic was there.

None of this was caught in the pre-buy, either, so I've got three parties that didn't do their job.

What recourse do I have?

[gsxrpilot]

Who did the pre-buy? I would start by having a talk with that person.

[joegoersch]

Wow! I'm sorry to hear you're these issues. Just curious was it an MSC pre-buy ? Did you buy from an owner or a broker ? Did you get a "great" deal? By this I mean a good enough deal to pay for all these fixes which you shouldn't have to deal with...

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[jetdriven]

Not much, you've already eaten the steak.  Correct the deficiencies, and perhaps send a nasty letter of demand to the previous shop and the guy who did your prebuy.  This happened to a friend of mine. He bought a Piper PA28-140 and it had a 7000$ annual/prebuy at a piper service center near Atlanta. He shows up with the plane and its a CF. The two right side cylinders have exhaust leaks so large and so old that the mounting face for the pipe was corroded away and the cylinders were ruined. Landing light wire melted across the exhaust pipe. Oil cooler not really fastened to anything. Large hole in baffle on lower side where AC compressor was removed, huge leak in cooling air.  We drew up the invoice, along with a nice explanation and he got about 3 grand back from the Piper Service Center.

[DXB]

19 minutes ago, hmasing said:

My mechanic is finding all sorts of illegal engine modifications on my plane at my first annual, and I'm not sure what my course of action is.

For example, the Lycoming IO-360-A1A specs a solid oil line to the prop governor.  The engine has a flex line.  There are hoses from NAPA that are not aeronautical rated.  We've found a homemade bracket for the governor made of bent angle iron and nuts that are clearly not for aviation.  We've found a completely improper air/oil separator weld that is not even close to the specs from the manufacturer.  We've found incorrect bolts used in the prop governor (pipe fitted bolts should not be used in this application), and we're questioning the logbook entries by the A&P and owner.

Add to this, the engine was theoretically 220 hours SMOH when I bought it, I am 100% positive that these alterations are all from the prior owner and his mechanic friend.  When I bought the plane, it had a "fresh annual", which upon questioning was not an annual at all, but a pen-f*ck annual.  The gear wasn't swung, and none of the inspection panels were removed in the few hours the mechanic was there.

None of this was caught in the pre-buy, either, so I've got three parties that didn't do their job.

 What recourse do I have?

Ugh -sorry that SUCKS. Another horror story of getting burned by prebuy that was not up to snuff, but there is no enforceable standard for a prebuy, so no recourse there. The prior owner has plausible deniability since the last annual was signed off. I'd think you could cause FSDO trouble at least for whomever signed off the annual, particularly if it was that mechanic friend who did nonstandard work.  But unless that person or their employer has deep pockets (doubtful), any tangible benefit to you seems unlikely to warrant the effort.  

I wonder if this case provides rationale to always convert successful prebuys into annuals - at least that IA signature may create some accountability.

Edited July 31, 2019 by DXB

[hypertech]

I bought my plane with 1200 SMOH and expected to get a few years before addressing the engine.  Didn't happen.  I ended up with a major overhaul despite having a preeminent shop do the prebuy.  Modifications or no modifications, you might have ended up doing this.  I look at it as having paid my education to learn how to be an airplane owner.  I know a whole lto more about what I'm looking at now having gone through that.

You can buy the right hoses and the rights parts at aircraft spruce.  I would suggest finding a good A&P who will let you assist and start working on it.  In the end you will know what you have and be a much smarter owner.  Be an owner that knows what's under the cowl.  It might help you someday when something goes wrong at a fuel stop and there's no mechanic to be found anywhere.

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by hypertech

[Dream to fly]

My mechanic is finding all sorts of illegal engine modifications on my plane at my first annual, and I'm not sure what my course of action is.

For example, the Lycoming IO-360-A1A specs a solid oil line to the prop governor.  The engine has a flex line.  There are hoses from NAPA that are not aeronautical rated.  We've found a homemade bracket for the governor made of bent angle iron and nuts that are clearly not for aviation.  We've found a completely improper air/oil separator weld that is not even close to the specs from the manufacturer.  We've found incorrect bolts used in the prop governor (pipe fitted bolts should not be used in this application), and we're questioning the logbook entries by the A&P and owner.

Add to this, the engine was theoretically 220 hours SMOH when I bought it, I am 100% positive that these alterations are all from the prior owner and his mechanic friend.  When I bought the plane, it had a "fresh annual", which upon questioning was not an annual at all, but a pen-f*ck annual.  The gear wasn't swung, and none of the inspection panels were removed in the few hours the mechanic was there.

None of this was caught in the pre-buy, either, so I've got three parties that didn't do their job.

What recourse do I have?

Wow I'm not the only one. Sorry you have to deal with it. Get ready it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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[jetdriven]

the hard oil line for the governor comes from Lycoming and its expensive,  I think around 600-800$. 

[bradp]

Wonder what the overhaul was like...

[hmasing]

2 minutes ago, bradp said:

Wonder what the overhaul was like...

That's exactly the issue.  I would like to go after the A&P who signed off on this and at the very least have them cover the costs to bring the engine up to overhaul standards.

 

[KSMooniac]

the hard oil line for the governor comes from Lycoming and its expensive,  I think around 600-800$. 

When I checked 18-24 months ago I think it was only $400-ish. That's still obscene for a bent tube, but whatever. I thought mine was leaking but fortunately it was the pipe fitting at the front of the engine. At least I had the tube, though! It is under high pressure, which is why they didn't use a hose.

For the OP, sorry you got swindled a bit. Before spending a bunch of money I'd pull out interior side panels and inspect the cage, and really inspect the spar for corrosion. Make sure you don't have any real show-stoppers before going down the rehab road.

I'd contact the prebuy mechanic and whoever signed the last annual and ask if they want to make it right. If they don't work with you, I'd be inclined to notify the FSDO and show them what you've found vs what they say the did and signed for. We don't need cheats in this industry.

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[hmasing]

5 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

For the OP, sorry you got swindled a bit. Before spending a bunch of money I'd pull out interior side panels and inspect the cage, and really inspect the spar for corrosion. Make sure you don't have any real show-stoppers before going down the rehab road.

The spars are good, I did the SB a few months ago.  Overall, the airframe is solid, it's just the engine that is the main concern right now.

> I'd contact the prebuy mechanic and whoever signed the last annual and ask if they want to make it right. If they don't work with you, I'd be inclined to notify the FSDO and show them what you've found vs what they say the did and signed for. We don't need cheats in this industry.

That sounds like a reasonable path.

[takair]

Ref. the prop line, I know my old 64 has a high pressure hose from the factory.  Don’t know what year they went to the hard line, but it may be the situation that the Mooney manual has the hose in your F as well....

[aviatoreb]

This is really depressing.  Above all the most crooked character is the previous owner, who knowingly sold you something that would be a headache. I'm sorry to hear what a nuisance.

[M20F]

Don’t have it handy but you can use a flex hose from governor to prop. The solid ones cracked. I think it might even be an AD.  

[takair]

Also, the older Mooney’s prop governor brackets look hand built from extrusion.  Not sure when they stopped doing that, but mine looks pretty crude but is original.  Still sounds painful, but maybe one or two of the findings are just related to the age of the airplane....

[PT20J]

Lycoming SI 1435 allows the option of a flexible hose on the prop governor line, so that might be OK if the hose is the Lycoming-specified part. 

Skip

[Shadrach]

I have a flexible fire sleeved hose with steel fittings from governor to prop.  I cannot see how a hard line would be superior.  If someone has some actual paperwork showing that a had line is required, please link it.  10 different IAs have had their hands on my plane in the last 20 years. None have had an issue with the line. 

[jetdriven]

I think the only A.D. regarding this is there must be a steel fitting in the case at the front where the line connects

[lamont337]

17 minutes ago, takair said:

Also, the older Mooney’s prop governor brackets look hand built from extrusion.  Not sure when they stopped doing that, but mine looks pretty crude but is original.  

This describes mine as well. It also had to be further modified when I had my oil filter adapter installed. 

[hmasing]

9 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I have a flexible fire sleeved hose with steel fittings from governor to prop.  I cannot see how a hard line would be superior.  If someone has some actual paperwork showing that a had line is required, please link it.  10 different IAs have had their hands on my plane in the last 20 years. None have had an issue with the line. 

We just found the docs saying a flex hose is legal - but it has to be a Type D - not whatever this NAPA autoparts bullshit is that we have on there now.  It's absolutely not the right line, so regardless it's still an illegal shortcut.

[jetdriven]

What kind of hose is it?  If it has the welded tag with the data on it, it’s likely an aircraft part. Anyways you can get one made at PTI in Tulsa 

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, hmasing said:

We just found the docs saying a flex hose is legal - but it has to be a Type D - not whatever this NAPA autoparts bullshit is that we have on there now.  It's absolutely not the right line, so regardless it's still an illegal shortcut.

I understand that you're quite ticked off right now.  It's easy to start seeing everything as junk if you've been told your plane is full of "NAPA autoparts bullshit".  I would respectfully suggest you post pictures of the offending parts and installations so that folks can see what you're describing.  You may well have some installations and fasteners that need correction. You may also have a mechanic that's gone all "Eeyore" on you and is seeing problems that are not really problems. It has happened to me.   You were misinformed about the governor line. It is possible that you've been misinformed about other things  50 year old GA aircraft are pretty crude machines in some ways. The brake reservoir on the 70s era birds looks like a can of lighter fluid with some hoses punched through the lid. The OEM breather tube is clear vinyl that gets hardened and stained and does not look very sophisticated.

[hmasing]

37 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

 It's easy to start seeing everything as junk if you've been told your plane is full of "NAPA autoparts bullshit".  I would respectfully suggest you post pictures of the offending parts and installations so that folks can see what you're describing.  

This is the only photo I have on my phone, but this is not an aeronautical rated hose. It is also not for fuel injection systems, JUST like it says on the hose - but is in the plane with an IO-360.  NOTE:  THIS IS NOT THE PROP GOVERNOR HOSE, JUST ONE OF THE MANY NAPA PARTS FOUND.

SAE 30R7 Fuel Line Hose is Recommended for low pressure/high temperature fuel for passenger car, light truck and small engine applications. Not intended for fuel injection systems.

• 30R7 is not Coast Guard approved for marine applications.
• Use with Fuel Line Hose Barbs

So yup, I'm going with "NAPA auto parts bullshit".

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by hmasing
Added note that this isn't the prop governor hose

[jetdriven]

Wow, that’s a 50 PSI hose on a 350 PSI governor line.  The aircraft Hoses are pressure tested to 3000 PSI.