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Actual cost of a TSIO 360-MB overhaul


xavierde

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So I've eventually found the right K and it's a 252. She's going for a pre-buy over the next few days and the only thing I'm trying to get my head around is the fully loaded cost of an overhaul. I should be able to get 300/400h on this engine before having to do that but I've had Mooney owner friends having to do it before 1500h :/

I am getting quotes from a few shops recommended on other MS threads but would be curious to hear about actual fully loaded cost of an overhaul or factory reman for this engine. 

Really excited to get my hands on this aircraft!!

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There really isn't any way to answer this question. It can range from probably $25K for an overhaul from Jewell or your local A&P to $85K for a factory reman after removal, reinstallation, new hoses, etc.

There are just so many variables to consider. And much of it depends on what is found when your engine is opened up. For example can the case be reused, or taken on exchange? And even to what state are you paying labor/tax rates.

Just budget $100K and you'll be fine :-)

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I have almost 1600 hours on my TSIO-360. I'm planning on using Jewell Aviation http://www.jewellaviation.com/default.htm for the overhaul when my time comes. I would suggest giving them a call and getting their estimate. They publish their prices on the website, but giving them a call might be good.

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also... be sure the quotes are apples:apples, especially with respect to accessories and turbo's/exhaust.  Dunno about the TSIO360MB, but for the TSIO550G, the invoice includes new turbos and accessories, and it generally is priced very close to field overhaul when all that is taken into account.

-dan

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New cylinders, overhauled fuel system, new or reman mags, overhauled exhaust, overhauled turbo/wg, new hoses, engine mounts, baffles, etc. I’d budget at least 40-45 and be prepared to reach deeper into the pockets while you’re in there.  

The engine overhaul process is no different from maintenance in general.  Many decisions to make along the way. Make sure as you’re looking at used planes that the previous overhaul replaced/overhauled the required systems to even be considered one. (a number of them don’t...). 

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15 minutes ago, Geoff said:

FWIW I had my TSIO 360 LB overhauled at Jewel about 100 hours ago and have been very pleased.

This will be a very important data point. Could you please share the approximate cost and items replaced/overhauled. 

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New items: pistons, gaskets, all hoses FWF, gaskets, etc

Overhauled items: crank, case, turbo, Merlin controller, exhaust, fuel system, mags

Reused items: alternator, vacuum pump, other small accessories 

Don Maxwell did the R&R.

All of the above plus shipping and taxes ~$60K

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Cylinders, overhaul or new?

This falls in line with the engine overhaul work we had done. The overhaul portion was about half of the complete out the door cost.  I had to add it up a few time as I was amazed how the “small things” really started to become real dollars.

Thanks again for providing that info!

Edited by MIm20c
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17 minutes ago, Geoff said:

New items: pistons, gaskets, all hoses FWF, gaskets, etc

Overhauled items: crank, case, turbo, Merlin controller, exhaust, fuel system, mags

Reused items: alternator, vacuum pump, other small accessories 

Don Maxwell did the R&R.

All of the above plus shipping and taxes ~$60K

Factory new or OH cylinders?  

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On 7/27/2019 at 6:29 AM, 81X said:
Factory new or OH cylinders?  

New pistons, which are required, means overhauled cylinders.

 

An MB will be a few thousand more with the hydraulic controller and wastegate. Additional accessories add up too.

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Edited by kortopates
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13 minutes ago, kortopates said:

New pistons, which are required, means overhauled cylinders.

 

An MB will be a few thousand more with more the hydraulic controller and waste gate. Additional accessories add up too.

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I'm not following.  Aren't the options new or overhauled cylinders with new pistons during a major?  Just curious which option made up the $60K.  

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I'm not following.  Aren't the options new or overhauled cylinders with new pistons during a major?  Just curious which option made up the $60K.  

Saying "new pistons" above rather than new cylinders means they O/H his cylinders. The labor is included in their engine OH base price.


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29 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Saying "new pistons" above rather than new cylinders means they O/H his cylinders. The labor is included in their engine OH base  price  

Interesting. I figured overhauled cylinders meant the valves/guides were replaced and the cylinder was machined/honed along with new pistons etc. Just saying pistons I thought the other components were left alone. 

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41 minutes ago, kortopates said:


Saying "new pistons" above rather than new cylinders means they O/H his cylinders. The labor is included in their engine OH base price.


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I guess so. It was just odd not being listed in the “overhauled items” list. 

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Contact shops and get estimates. Aero Engines of Winchester did mine on my m20f and you should include them in your runnings. 

Getting an overhaul estimate for your engine prior to purchase will show you how much you need in the bank. 

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20 hours ago, 81X said:

I'm not following.  Aren't the options new or overhauled cylinders with new pistons during a major?  Just curious which option made up the $60K.  

Lycoming and Continental both list what is required to major an engine.  You merely need to make those absolute minimum changes.  So a cam shaft as example almost to the point of failing but in tolerance, well that is good enough. 

You really need a good mechanic to guide you through the process because some $20k overhauls are great, some $60k overhauls are bad, and vice versa.  

Given infant mortality is also real in an overhaul be prepared to do it again 200-300hrs after you do it as well.  

Aircraft ownership is like the lottery some people have great luck through ownership.  Others have terrible luck (e.g. overhaul engine, don’t write down serials, oops AD on part X, lets tear it apart to see if the AD applies).  Then you seal the tanks and find irreparable corrosion.  

There is nothing better than owning a plane though there is also nothing worse (except maybe a helicopter).

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4 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

Contact shops and get estimates. Aero Engines of Winchester did mine on my m20f and you should include them in your runnings. 

 Getting an overhaul estimate for your engine prior to purchase will show you how much you need in the bank. 

Will do. I have received a few already but will actually ask for factory reman quotes vs overhaul since these will be apples to apples.

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I contacted Triad in Burlington, NC to get an estimate on my TSIO 360LB.  When all is said and done expect around $55K with case, crank, etc that can be overhauled.   Estimate includes new Continental cylinders, new exhaust system, overhauled fuel system, overhauled Merlyn and Turbo, overhauled alternator, new Slick Mags with harness, all the typical hoses removal and installation.  

Since I'm extremely happy with my nickel carbide cylinders I'm hopeful Continental will offer NiC3 when I overhaul.  If not, I'll probably just have Triad send out the new cylinders to Aircraft Cylinders of America and have them plated.  ACoA did my current cylinders.

Edited by CaptRJM
typo
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OT I know but for 89.9 AMU’s they will install this certified engine completely.



Experimentals only for now and it’s not certified yet :(


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OT I know but for 89.9 AMU’s they will install this certified engine completely.




Experimentals only for now and it’s not certified yet default_sad.png


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Looks like it will be a great option for a Skyhawk. Wish them well, but they've been working on this for 25 years and been saying it'll be certified since 2011. Now that they got an infusion of cash a few years ago maybe it will finally happen. But I am skeptical we'll see a higher horsepower version suitable for a K in my lifetime.


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5 hours ago, kortopates said:


Looks like it will be a great option for a Skyhawk. Wish them well, but they've been working on this for 25 years and been saying it'll be certified since 2011. Now that they got an infusion of cash a few years ago maybe it will finally happen. But I am skeptical we'll see a higher horsepower version suitable for a K in my lifetime.


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How about this? 320-450 hp.  V8 diesel.

https://eps.aero/the-eps-engine/

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