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Accelerated Instrument Training


bdavis171

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3 minutes ago, PTK said:

So what’s the rush to check the box?

It's something I've thought about for the last 4 years since I finished my PPL.  I'm ready to finally commit and follow through with as minimal distractions as possible.   Setting aside a block of time to fully focus on this training works best for me.  It's obvious that its a polarizing topic for people, but I feel as though people who have gone through the accelerated programs are happy with their decisions.  

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I have taken longer than I should to get through this rating and close to being done, but, looking back in no way would I have wanted to rush this, there is just so much to learn and not having the chance to really fly in the soup is a disservice to the process and a risk, the foggles or hood does not even compare to real IMC. Just my opinion, but, everyone takes a different path and nothing wrong with an accelerated program with longer term continued training post the rating.

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Although there are lots of good reasons to move slowly through the instrument training, a lot of people have taken accelerated courses and done well. The important part is what you do after you have the rating. And I hear you saying the correct things. Good luck and be careful.

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22 hours ago, RLCarter said:

The Instrument Rating in my opinion isn’t something you want to blow through in a couple of weeks. Find a local instructor and stretch it out a little farther... just my $0.02

I agree, but if you have done some training and some approaches and some time with a safety pilot, the comprehensive school can be a viable method for finishing up.

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There is a balance. Students who drag it out certainly require more hours as well. There is something to be said for focusing on one thing and going fast enough to reduce memory loss between lessons. Probably depends on the student's learning style. Think about the amount of info you have to absorb quickly in a type rating class.

-Robert

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1 hour ago, bdavis171 said:

It's something I've thought about for the last 4 years since I finished my PPL.  I'm ready to finally commit and follow through with as minimal distractions as possible.   Setting aside a block of time to fully focus on this training works best for me.  It's obvious that its a polarizing topic for people, but I feel as though people who have gone through the accelerated programs are happy with their decisions.  

Hey, it's a heck of a lot better to just get the rating than being caught in the clouds and when ATC asks "are you instrument rated and equipped" answering, "I've got some instrument training so I think I can do this."

It's better to spend some time flying IFR in the clear blue to get used to the system and punching through non-confining IMC like 3000 scattered/broken with tops at 4000 till you really get the hang of it. Nobody says that you can or should go flying in low IFR to minimums on every flight once you get your rating. But if you do take the crash course, you have to be extra aware of this and let the long term learning and practice catch up with you once you've got the ticket.

It's not an award for brilliance and achievement. It's a ticket to begin the next phase of learning.

Edited by 201er
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My theory is, that the ideal way to fly IFR after you get the rating is to start off flying when the ceilings are above 1000 feet at your departure, and 2000 at your destination. Then as you get more comfortable, accept 1000 feet at the destination. From there, slowly decrease that down to where your comfort level ends. It is A LOT DIFFERENT the first time your CFII is not with you.

I always contend that flying on instruments while in clouds is easy. But there is a brief worry (panic?) when you first enter them after take-off. That quickly subsides. But then the real worry starts as the altimeter begins to unwind in the approach. The lower you get the more the worry until you break out. Maybe it is different for others, but that is the way I feel.

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21 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

When I first got my rating it was recommended I carry foggles. If you feel uncomfortably in the clouds put the foggles on and you’ll be in your happy place. 

-Robert 

I've heard / read this several times

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It's something I've thought about for the last 4 years since I finished my PPL.  I'm ready to finally commit and follow through with as minimal distractions as possible.   Setting aside a block of time to fully focus on this training works best for me.  It's obvious that its a polarizing topic for people, but I feel as though people who have gone through the accelerated programs are happy with their decisions.  

I got my accelerated rating in 14 days of solid instruction and flying in a school in central Florida. I got my PPL rating the slow way many years back, and wasted a lot of time and money relearning between flights, sometimes a week or more apart instead of one or twice a day. For me the accelerated instruction is the only way to go, and will follow the same path when I have the time to get a commercial and CFII ratings.
Like others on this forum, I got my IR as a license to learn, and it was several hours of simulated and actual IMC flying before I took passengers. Today, I am much more comfortable with my instrument skills but still carefully evaluate the go/no-go decision for every flight and avoid flying to minimums unless I have enough recent experience to make me feel proficient.
Good luck, fly safe, regardless of your eventual decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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14 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Although there are lots of good reasons to move slowly through the instrument training, a lot of people have taken accelerated courses and done well. The important part is what you do after you have the rating. And I hear you saying the correct things. Good luck and be careful.

This. 

Watch the instrument threads here, on other forums, in social media groups, and in IMC Club and other discussions. You will see questions reflecting a lack of understanding of what others would consider very standard procedures by instrument-rated pilots, some experienced. When I was tending the AOPA Pilot Protection Services legal desk at SnF this year, I was asked what I thought was a basic procedure question — by a CFII.

A successful instrument checkride is a baseline. Whether you get there slow or fast is irrelevant except to the extent that individuals learn differently. The common quip that you are never more competent than you are after the checkride is a fallacy.

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1 hour ago, FLYFST said:


I got my accelerated rating in 14 days of solid instruction and flying in a school in central Florida. I got my PPL rating the slow way many years back, and wasted a lot of time and money relearning between flights, sometimes a week or more apart instead of one or twice a day. For me the accelerated instruction is the only way to go, and will follow the same path when I have the time to get a commercial and CFII ratings.

When I was working on my PPL I flew on Saturday mornings, weather and maintenance permitting. For my IR I flew twice a week with my CFI-I and at least once a week with another of his IR students as a Safety Pilot, finished up in 2 months, but did terrible on the written. Just started my Commercial, hitting the books a little harder and not being as cocky. Commercial written hopefully in a week and CFI & FOI a few weeks later. One of the things that gets an IR student is the lack of X-country time, I'm currently helping a guy out as a Safety Pilot, he was getting ready for the Check-Ride and realized he had only 9 hrs of X-country logged. The reason for the Safety Pilot is can stay semi-proficient while he flies of the time

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/26/2019 at 12:17 PM, Jim Peace said:

You are not comparing apples and apples here......

hair on back of my neck standing up.......

Instrument rating does not mean you are safe to fly on instruments.........no matter what the check airman or instructor may say or sign you off on.....there are so many gotchas that cant be accounted for in a 2 week course or a checkride.....

do not fly with passengers in IMC for a long time if you do this.....not fair to them.......

OP, you know best how you learn.  Accelerated worked best for me because of recency and immersion, but each of us is different.

First time in actual ALONE (and yes it should be alone) will give you goosebumps.  Try to ensure it is in "safe" IMC -- like a nice marine layer (maybe OVC 020 with tops at 3-4,000, VFR above). Find some of the great "personal minimums" guidance posted/online, be VERY conservative, and get experience.  IFR skills are perishable, practice filing and flying IFR as much as practicable, even when it takes longer or is not as convenient.  Find buddies to team up with for safety pilot and work with each other. 

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PIC worked for me but took a few extra days.Luckily my retired AF SAC pilot lived just 40 nm from me so I could meet him at his airport and he could sleep at his house.The instrument ratings was truely a license to learn...with just simple coastal fog/stratus layers with ample minimums.No frontal passages or high Sierra winter operations for first couple of years

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/26/2019 at 3:28 AM, kortopates said:

I understand how people would really like to get the instrument rating done and over in a couple weeks. Life gets in the way at times and so we tend to think why not just set aside a couple weeks to get it done. But going that route robs the pilot from learning about ADM skills and different weather hazards as they appear during the course of normal training. Seldom does accelerated training provide much IMC experience unless they just so happen to do their training at the right time and at the right location to get it. IMO taking your time with much greater time and exposure to mentor your ADM skills with your instructor will leave you much better prepared. Giant kudos for learning your instrument rating in your complex Mooney where you are much more likely to learn IFR flying by numbers with different PAC's for different profiles and gain the piloting discipline which will transfer to flying IFR any aircraft.

I have no doubt many pilots can get through the accelerated training and then use their license to learn slowly in gradual baby steps as they learn different kinds of weather. But what one has to guard themselves against is the same strong drive of accomplishment to complete such an arduous task in a couple weeks, can also translate into an attitude of invincibility when it comes to setting personal minimums. At such an early stage such pilots are still learning what the weather risks really are and may not even consider things like  strong winds aloft at altitude even hazardous since it never came up in their brief training.

A sad but great example of this was a Mooney pilot some years ago that got his instrument in 10 days because he just had to fly his Mooney J to a wedding in Jackson, WY in a few more weeks and didn't want to be deterred by clouds. He ended up killing himself and 2 of his young kids because he lacked the experience to conduct such a flight and then accepted clearances, like direct over the highest terrain, that he really didn't have the equipment to fly. 

I am not saying everyone that does the accelerated training is going to go down the same path. What I am trying to convey is perhaps you'll get a far better education by adopting the same attitude you need to survive from the get go, by taking your time to get as much varied weather and IMC experience as you can with a good instructor that will not only pass along the technical aspects of flying instruments partial panel etc but also spend time with you to learn more about the hazards of instrument flying and ADM. IMO it will build a much stronger foundation for you to build on. 

But regardless of what route you go, you and anyone pursing an instrument rating is to be commended simply because its a lot of hard work, much like the private was if not harder, and for me it was the most rewarding rating. So get it and use it often :) Because proficiency is everything in instrument flying.

This is straight talk and on point.  

I had a very good experience getting my instrument license.  I lived in Oregon at the time, and started ten hours after I received my Private pilots license.  All my time from 50 hours to the 125 hours need for the instrument license (in 1980's) were done every Saturday morning at 3000 feet in actual conditions (which exist for 9 months out of each year in the Pacific Northwest).  I did this in a in a Grumman Tiger, without autopilot and with steam gauges, over one and a half years, and then, once I had my license, I was extremely cautious about slowly advancing what conditions I allowed myself to fly into.

You want to put the knowledge and the technical skills into long term memory.  In an unexpected encounter with significant weather, your responses must be decisive and well ingrained into your skill set.  This is not ever accomplished in 2 weeks, or 2 years, or even more as you will constantly be practicing to keep current.  It is an elusive skill set.

Having the consistent exposure as a student to actual conditions over that year and a half of training helped alot.  Beware of fair weather IFR training over short periods.

John Breda

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No airplane IR for me yet, but when working on my heli IR and CFII this worked well for me: 

Get a handful of hours with a CFII to learn the procedures, go slow and take a lot of notes.  Then spend several hours practicing those procedures in FSX or X-plane.  Even use the autopilot if you don't have a joystick.   The objective is to know what to do and when, not necessarily how.  When you have the procedures down cold, go back to the instructor and finish it.  Saved me a lot of time and money.  Getting my CFII in helis took 5 days.  IR took longer because I needed the flight requirements.

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  • 3 months later...

I'm happy to help. I provide accelerated IFR training using your aircraft at your Airport. I have a M20 and been teaching in Mooneys for the last 20 years. I also have helped MAPA as an instructor.

I charge a daily rate of $550 and you take care of my expenses except for food. I have over 10,000 hours along with a gold seal from the FAA, try to get as many actual NC hours as possible during training, about a 93% first-time pass rate and experience as a DPE.

Feel free to reach me 520 222-6084. - Phil

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There's no one right way to skin this cat.  Maybe knock out the written first, as others have suggested, so you have the basic knowledge and can then focus on applying it to the flying.  My training after I finished the written was long and arduous, with many delays until the checkride.  If I'd had a block of time to set aside and the right instructor (maybe like @Phil K above?), I would have loved to have banged it out in a few days.  An ongoing relationship with a good instructor is ideal - that way you won't be simply turned loose after the checkride.  As others note, don't ventur into hard IMC for the first time alone, whether you do your training slow or fast.  I was very grateful for 4-5 hours of actual during my training, but I see no reason why the same thing can't be accomplished with an instructor after you get your ticket, if necessary.  You'll need to be in the habit of going back to instructors periodically regardless to help maintain and build your proficiency - no way around it. 

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The question was where to go for an accelerated instrument rating, not whether such training was a good idea.

The answer is Gatts.  I was there this summer for a refresher in my J.  It was by far the best instrument training I have experienced in 50 years of flying.

They have a unique system, it works, and so far as I know no where else uses their method.  I have incorporated a lot of their system in my instrument flying which has become hugely simpler and less stressful.

They are not cheap, they are booked up way in advance, and they are professionals who specialize in instrument instruction for GA pilots not guys who passed for CFII last month.

Go there ...

 

 

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On 7/26/2019 at 1:54 PM, Bravoman said:

I used PIC for accelerated training years ago. I had had previous instruction but for myself I prefer a condensed time frame and pouring on the coals  to get it done.  My instructor was an Air Force Academy grad and a significantly decorated Vietnam forward air control pilot. Couldn’t have been happier with the experience. As mentioned above by others though, I did not delude myself into thinking that I was anything other than a student with a license to learn after getting my ticket, which I still consider myself to be. Started with very conservative personal  minimums, which gradually became less conservative as I got more experience in the system.

Ditto, PIC in 2007 having my test done and some IFR dual training prior. . Instructor was 30K hr retired airline captain. That had a lot of advantages (and some gotchas) but definitely treat it as a license to learn. Also your experience will be highly a function of who you end up with as an instructor. Definitely do it (if you can) in YOUR aircraft. 

 

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