Oshkosh observation

[Oldguy]

A couple of thoughts/questions after following this thread (conveyed in the @carusoam format):

1. We seem to love our modded Mooneys. @RogueOne's search/acquisition of his Missile, @aviatoreb's Rocket with custom everything, and more. With these and other STC's orphaned, could Mooney International do anything to acquire them and offer them as they have with others? Would J and K owners have any interest in those mods, and would Rocket Engineering let go of them? How about some of the other orphaned STC owners; would they be willing to part with some of theirs? Just today on FB, I saw a recommendation to contact a guy to get the J windscreen mod STC he developed and owns for someones C. This could provide support for our "legacy" planes, and generate some goodwill within the current owners.
2. What about things like MT props for helping the UL on our planes- new and old? Is any work being done on an STC for the Ultras? How much does it put back into a Rocket or Missile to swap props? Do you gain even more by taking the Charlie weights out of the rear of the plane? It looks like about an 11 lb. improvement on the stock K model with a three blade MT prop. When the time comes for me to replace the prop on my J, what will it save me weight-wise? I would take an extra 5-10 lbs.
3. Has anyone seen an advertisement for Mooney in Robb Report or other magazines with a similar demographic? What/where is the target market, and how is the marketing effort being applied to reach them? I recall seeing a couple of marketing programs put together by Mooney over the last couple of years that seem to come out and then be gone within a few months.

There have been some great points made in the discussion above. My comments are only to add a little to those already made as, like everyone, I sincerely wish Mooney International to succeed and grow the brand. But like many, I struggle to make sense of how they can accomplish that based on what I see them do in public and at trade shows.

[gsxrpilot]

As I said about Oshkosh last year, I'd have fired the entire booth staff at Mooney. Evidently they did. But this year they have to fire this bunch as well. Anyone who walked into both the Cirrus booth and the Mooney booth could tell the difference. 

I spend too much of my life on exhibit floors at conferences. A good booth staff member will actively pitch to every person who stops for 2 seconds. Even if you know they won't buy, they're the wrong audience, etc. One reason is just to perfect the pitch. It takes time to get the pitch dialed in, and on a million dollar sale, the pitch needs to be on point. So you use all the riff raff coming through the booth to practice on. So that when the guy with a million to spend shows up, you've got the pitch dialed in. Of course, never mind the fact that you might not recognize the guy with the million dollar checkbook and miss the opportunity all together.

Mooney can't seem to figure this simple thing out. I'm sure the Oshkosh booth cost a fortune. It's a shame they staffed it with knuckleheads. 

[MooneyMitch]

23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Mooney can't seem to figure this simple thing out. I'm sure the Oshkosh booth cost a fortune. It's a shame they staffed it with knuckleheads. 

You always have such a way of sugar coating things !

[RogueOne]

Keepin’ it real, right gsr?  (Rhetorical). To me it IS personal as I own and want the brand to succeed as Mooney is MY BRAND.  Marketing is not magic.  It is directed planned and rehearsed work.  I want Mooney to win.  To quote -a-

Go Mooney!

[Sandman993]

On 7/25/2019 at 1:34 PM, jetdriven said:

Sadly, the Mooney product is obsolete and the market is speaking. 300+ SR20 Cirrus aircraft delivered per year for the most of the past decade. How’s many M20s? 
Why is that? 

Instead of spending money improving the M20 line, they blow 100m on the M10 failed project. Now, they have a carbon fiber cowl concept for the Ovation.  The entire Cirrus is carbon.  

I would need a duck mask to ride in a Cirrus and my Tee shirt would have Squid in huge letters.

[steingar]

Of course the other thing that staggers me is all the other airframe manufacturers had swag on sale at their booths.  T-shirts and all sorts of stuff.  Seems like a good idea.  Keeps folks at your place longer so it looks more full.  Moreover, people shell out good money to advertise your product.  Seems like a win-win to me for the price of some swag (cheap) and some poor Wisconsonian teenager to take in the money.  Not only did Mooney not do this, but they chased out folks who wanted to do it on their behalf.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.  They will not sell more than a handful of airframes if they don't get some marketing and sales strategy.  The Mooneys are great airplanes, but they won't sell themselves.

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

As I said about Oshkosh last year, I'd have fired the entire booth staff at Mooney. Evidently they did. But this year they have to fire this bunch as well. Anyone who walked into both the Cirrus booth and the Mooney booth could tell the difference. 

I spend too much of my life on exhibit floors at conferences. A good booth staff member will actively pitch to every person who stops for 2 seconds. Even if you know they won't buy, they're the wrong audience, etc. One reason is just to perfect the pitch. It takes time to get the pitch dialed in, and on a million dollar sale, the pitch needs to be on point. So you use all the riff raff coming through the booth to practice on. So that when the guy with a million to spend shows up, you've got the pitch dialed in. Of course, never mind the fact that you might not recognize the guy with the million dollar checkbook and miss the opportunity all together.

Mooney can't seem to figure this simple thing out. I'm sure the Oshkosh booth cost a fortune. It's a shame they staffed it with knuckleheads. 

Having salaried employees there is a mistake - maybe one or two to handle behind the scenes details, but have people in that booth that get paid for selling something and who want to be there. I decided to give the Mooney booth another chance this year after being completely disappointed last year. Again, no one ever approached me. (I've owned quite a few airplanes over the years - 6 Mooneys plus some others in 30 some years, so I must be a prospect for someone). I was there on the day that it was especially hot and noticed that the employees were going to the cooler and getting water bottles for themselves. After awhile I asked if it would be possible to get a water - I was heavily scrutinized before being given one. Buying water by the case at Costco, each bottle costs about 12 cents. At least use that as a chance to strike up a conversation and talk airplanes with me - nope, nothing, nada.  I thanked them for the water, said i was a Mooney owner and lived near Kerrville - still nothing. I was a nuisance to them. I won't bother next year.

Later I went to the Aspen Avionics Tent in the North 40 (they also had a booth in one of the buildings) and had 5 friends with me - all we were looking for was a few minutes of shade. Perri Coyne the Director of Marketing was getting us beers and soft drinks and John Uczekaj the CEO was showing me new things on the Max and thanking me for being a customer. These people know why they are at Oshkosh and they want to be there. their products sell for a few thousand, not close to a million and they were actively selling.

I think 15-20 people a year buy a Mooney just because they know how great they are. I'm sure many more would buy if they were being active sold.

[Yetti]

9 hours ago, Seymour said:

I did my part at OSH and talked with a 6' 5' guy from NYC that was looking at a Mooney and was worried about fit.  I climbed into the static, red model with him and talked about everything from needing more space for my J-Bar clearance, useful load, and answered LOTS of other questions from information I learned on MS.   Hope I steered him accurately and honestly.   

 

Ha ha I did this the other day at College Station.

The line guy and I saw eye to eye so I asked if he was taking lessons.   He said yes.   I said you need to climb in.   He did as we appropriately sweated ourselves to death in the Texas heat..

He was excited to fit.

I need to go back over and give him a ride.

 

 

[Seymour]

4 minutes ago, bob865 said:

It's funny that you liken it to a VW beelte.  Richard Colins did an Air Facts to that point back in 2014 too.

Great minds???

...or more likely, I read where someone referenced that on MS and the thought stuck, but I never read the article back then.   That's a pretty interesting analysis (and a lot more in depth than my shallow comparison)

[DonMuncy]

Comparing a Mooney to a VW? Unbelievable. I own a Beetle, and I appreciate the innovation and success of Ferdinand Porsche for the VW. But to compare a basic inexpensive peoples car to a virtually hand-built, extremely fast, capable handling, cross country machine like a Mooney, is pretty good stretch. I haven't read the article, and I know that some comparisons can be drawn, especially in efficiency. But I still contend the Mooney is better compared to a Lotus. 

[whiskytango]

I didn't attend OSH, but reading the comments of those who went to the Mooney exhibit is distressing.  Mooney seems to be acting as if they are happy to sell a few new aircraft every year, and if you meet their requirements, they will take your money???!!!  Can Mooney really be profitable with so few sales? If the company management is satisfied with that approach, then I don't see how Mooney can survive.  If management does want to increase sales and keep the company viable, then a drastic overhaul is needed in the marketing department.

[EricJ]

15 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Comparing a Mooney to a VW? Unbelievable. I own a Beetle, and I appreciate the innovation and success of Ferdinand Porsche for the VW. But to compare a basic inexpensive peoples car to a virtually hand-built, extremely fast, capable handling, cross country machine like a Mooney, is pretty good stretch. I haven't read the article, and I know that some comparisons can be drawn, especially in efficiency. But I still contend the Mooney is better compared to a Lotus. 

I've always thought Porsche 911, so the "Beetle" thing is not hugely far off, but definitely off.

[Seymour]

5 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Comparing a Mooney to a VW?

Nope, that's not the comparison.   

I was comparing the market for a VW Beetle to the market for a Mooney.  Most autos keep a model name but the style of the car changes substantially over time.   However, Mooneys and VWs have maintained a very similar style for the past 50+ years and both have maintained a dedicated following of owners.   ...so in order to get a previous owner to buy, the added value for a new model needs to be in the efficiency, comfort, technology, support and service.  Also, one would expect a lower maintenance cost on the new model.   Otherwise, why not keep the classic vintage and upgrade it?   

 

5 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

But I still contend the Mooney is better compared to a Lotus. 

Note that when I compare my Mooney to an automobile, it's an Alfa Romeo; comfort wise with my butt riding low and my long legs comfortably straight and style wise like a piece of art.

9 hours ago, steingar said:

Of course the other thing that staggers me is all the other airframe manufacturers had swag on sale at their booths.  T-shirts and all sorts of stuff.

I agree that there should have been some swag because OSH was the one time I was willing to be a walking billboard.   I wore a wristband my partner gave me that said "Mooney - 70 Years of Innovation".     I'll sell it to you for cheap.      

[DonMuncy]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the comparison was the vehicles, not the market.

I would agree, the vehicle comparison would be better to an Alfa. Light, nimble and responsive. Still not so much as a Lotus

[kpaul]

Yes, the booth was once again very disappointing.  I went in there on three different occasions, but passed by at least once every day Monday through Saturday.

The first, I had a nice conservation with @mike_elliottbut we know each other because I have attended a few Summits. 

The second trip, I went to retrieve my daughter who was enjoying their chairs in the shade of the trailer.  We actually ventured into the trailer, but at first I was not sure it was for anyone other than the employees. There was no one inside, but the air conditioning was nice.  We found a couple cold waters in a cooler under the stairs outside, we each took one even though they were not offered.  In fact no one talked to us at all and we even looked at each of the airplanes on display.  There were however 4 staffers gathered around one table talking only to each other.

The third trip, I had a nice discussion with Lee Drumheller.  Once again he is someone I have met through the Mooney Summit.  He was having a great show.  He had finished the deal on 3 planes was processing a 4th and had a 5th on the horizon.  So to answer @steingar, Mooney did actually sell the two aircraft on display and they did have SOLD signs in the windows on Saturday.

So, who talked to me?  The two gentleman that I already knew and neither of them work directly for Mooney.

Mooney did take some of the advice given last year to remove the fence and allow better access to the booth.  However they continue to rent large trailers meant for NASCAR events (this years had a NASCAR poster in the bathroom still).  Last years was open air, this years was closed up with mirrored windows so you could not see in.  The building like the employees was not inviting.  I guess it would have taken a lot of creativity to make a sign for the door welcoming everyone inside to enjoy the AC.  It did have a nice observation deck on the roof, but no one appeared to be invited to enjoy it.  It was empty the every time I ventured by, even during the airshows.

As others have said, there was not a single item of Mooney merchandise for sale anywhere on the EAA grounds.  That is a huge missed opportunity.  

Mike, I know you are very vested in the Mooney brand, but unless Mooney can hire marketing and sales personal that express that enthusiasm, to be the public face of the company, there is very little hope for the company even if they fix the UL and add a blue button.  You should point the marketing team to Mooney Space and this thread, maybe we are not their target audience but there is probably something to be learned from their current brand ambassadors.

[MooneyMitch]

5 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I hate to say it, guys, but this is nothing new for the Mooney tent at Oshkosh.  I have been to Oshkosh around 20 times since 1983 and have consistently gotten this kind of treatment.  Much of that was just as a kid but even then I was with my father who owned a C model and, as a former USAF pilot and current business owner with the means and mission to justify a new Mooney, it was the same for him.  We both worked a booth at Oshkosh several years as volunteers for another outfit and more enthusiastically pitched their products to any passerby we could even get eye contact with than I have ever seen anyone with Mooney do to potential customers who have already shown the predisposition to Mooney to go out of their way to enter their tent.   

That’s a takeaway for you, Mike.  Suggest to Mooney that they invite a few long time and enthusiastic long body owners/pilots to volunteer at their tent next year.  At least they will know and be enthusiastic for the product.  

Jim

I’ve got something to say about this, but headed out for a few hours.  I’ll post then.   

Stand by for my opinionated opinion 

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

I've always thought Porsche 911, so the "Beetle" thing is not hugely far off, but definitely off.

The sudden realization that all my vehicles have a boxer engine.  The BMW motorcycle. the Subaru and the Mooney.   Subaru has a turbo.

[201er]

11 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

As I said about Oshkosh last year, I'd have fired the entire booth staff at Mooney. Evidently they did. But this year they have to fire this bunch as well. Anyone who walked into both the Cirrus booth and the Mooney booth could tell the difference. 

Not the experience I had. Stopped by the Cirrus area and got the cold shoulder from staff both times! They had lots of salespeople standing around and still wouldn’t engage with me. It must have been wearing the Mooney shirt that gave me away as someone who’s not buying!

I even straight up said I currently fly a Mooney, what would be the biggest advantage of a Cirrus compared to a Mooney. They shrugged shoulders and looked at each other until someone finally said, “Cirrus is easier to fly.” What a moronic sales pitch to someone who is already capable of flying a Mooney.

 

 

They seemed a lot more keen to sit us in a plane and talk to us the time I brought my wife. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by 201er

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, Yetti said:

The sudden realization that all my vehicles have a boxer engine.  The BMW motorcycle. the Subaru and the Mooney.   Subaru has a turbo.

Everything in life can be solved with more horsepower, a turbocharger, or both..

[MooneyMitch]

"That’s a takeaway for you, Mike.  Suggest to Mooney that they invite a few long time and enthusiastic long body owners/pilots to volunteer at their tent next year.  At least they will know and be enthusiastic for the product.  

Jim "

This is exactly what we did at OSH 2014, volunteer for Mooney!   Mooney did "RISE AGAIN" and had a huge tent, along with their new 2014 Ovation, on display that year. 

 

We, Mooney Ambassadors, along with MAPA were invited to set up our displays within the Mooney tent.  We all volunteered our Mooney knowledge and experience in helping the new Mooney staff promote the brand to all visitors.  It was a great and exciting collaboration!  Within the tent and surrounding areas, there was lots of excitement, lots of Mooney swag, posters, brochures and tons of enthusiasm from all.  Again, it was an incredibly exciting time in Mooney history..........the resurrection and great hope for Mooney!! 

 

I don't know what happened, why neither MAPA or the Ambassadors are no longer part of the OSH Mooney display.  It is truly a GREAT idea Jim!  Let's hope Mooney will embrace this once again.  We CAN help!!

 

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, kpaul said:

Mike, I know you are very vested in the Mooney brand, but unless Mooney can hire marketing and sales personal that express that enthusiasm, to be the public face of the company, there is very little hope for the company even if they fix the UL and add a blue button.  You should point the marketing team to Mooney Space and this thread, maybe we are not their target audience but there is probably something to be learned from their current brand ambassadors.

Thanks Kevin. my vesting is passion at this point, and as a contractor who gets to spend a lot of close and personal time with the owners of new Ultras and old Mooney's alike. You nailed the purpose of why I started this tread.

[Yetti]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Everything in life can be solved with more horsepower, a turbocharger, or both..

You forgot Chrome.   Chrome is always good for another 5-10 knots.   Can't fix it Chrome it.

Unless it is the Mooney Marketing department which has to be told how to sell airplanes.   Why is it that the users are having to come up with the sales strategy.

[mike_elliott]

9 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Unless it is the Mooney Marketing department which has to be told how to sell airplanes. Why is it that the users are having to come up with the sales strategy.

No one asked for a sales strategy here, the users are taking it on themselves to voice what they think, some are very constructive suggestions, others are rants. My purpose was to give a venue for you to do just that, and maybe Mooney will review the suggestions and rants and they will take into consideration what the existing fleet feels about how they do things. It wasnt to "hire us for free" etc... It is your chance to be heard I hope.

 

[Yetti]

And yet you received some valuable feedback and suggestions from people who support their Mooney hobby by doing sales for other companies.  I would be in the market segment to have factory mods to the existing fleet.  If that is not the market Mooney is going to go after, then I am not part of their strategy.

[Yetti]

Here's an idea.   How about selling a blank panel kit for panel upgrades. or partner with a Electronic panel manufacture to sell in a drop in kit.