Oldguy

BK gets STC for AeroCruze 230, KA 310A/P Adapter, & AeroVue Touch

Recommended Posts

Disingenuous... a word used to describe marketing materials that include the M20L in with the mid body Mooneys...

Let the humor continue until the first customer install is complete, with an MS pirep posted...

Hopeful, but waiting...

Best regards,

-a-

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

20 hours ago, aidanf said:

its seems a bit disingenuous to say system total 11,590 then add a separate section with 4900 dollars of "additional required equipment"

You need to provide digital attitude reference to the ap. The 11,590$ is if you wish to retain the KI256. Then you need the KG71 and the KMG7010 to provide digital attitude ref. Alternatively the additional 4900$ can be put into a KI300 which seems a no brainer because you gain an ADI. That’s how I read it. This is why the 71 and 7010 are listed as required but in a separate table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, PTK said:

You need to provide digital attitude reference to the ap. The 11,590$ is if you wish to retain the KI256. Then you need the KG71 and the KMG7010 to provide digital attitude ref. Alternatively the additional 4900$ can be put into a KI300 which seems a no brainer because you gain an ADI. That’s how I read it. This is why the 71 and 7010 are listed as required but in a separate table.

Is that how it works?  The KI300 would otherwise replace the need for the KG71 and KMG7010?  

Do you know if alternatively an Aspen could drive a aerocruze230 as it is able to drive other king autopilots?  Or any other digital sources?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Is that how it works?  The KI300 would otherwise replace the need for the KG71 and KMG7010?  

The KG71 provides air data and KMG7010 provides compass info. I doubt that the KI-300 would provide air data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LANCECASPER said:

No, it has nothing to do with the need for the KG71 and KMG7010.

Ah well - too good to be true.  So if that's right - the aerocruze has priced themselves right to the point that they have erased a very large fraction of what would have been the savings in not needing the labor to r&r servos if going to GFC500.  

So I am not really seeing the point.  A panel like mine - still running mechanical gyro AI and HSI and KFC200 - to go digital of some kind AI, HSI and 15k of aero Cruze parts, and install, seems awfully close to getting a GFC500+ dual G5 and install.  Then if price is even a little close, wisdom tips the hat to the new brushless servos of the GFC500, plus honestly I am not so excited of the concept of investing a lot of money into a king product since they have been quite odd lately - but I would have considered it if this were a 10k or more savings for a real 10k drop in - which it is not after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

... but I would have considered it if this were a 10k or more savings for a real 10k drop in - which it is not after all.

I feel this is a problem with the ki300 as well. Originally it was touted as a drop in (all in one) replacement to the 256. I still think if it was brought to market a couple years ago like it was initially released, it would have sold very well. Now the extra expense and added labor of installing another box will stifle sales imo. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I want is for Garmin to produce a box so the G5 can talk to the KFC150 - so I can eliminate the vacuum system and the KI256. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This shows the components. 

https://www.bendixking.com/en/~/media/bendixking/files/a60-2110-000-000_aerovuetouch_8-br.pdf

The 71 and 7010 appear to be part of a more comprehensive upgrade i.e. aerovue touch and/or aerocruze. So if all we want is to remove the KI256 and vacuum keeping the KFC150, then the KI300 and 310 adapter make more sense. In other words the money spent on 71 and 7010 would make more sense when doing aerovue touch and aerocruze.

Also see section 3.1, on top of pg. 4 of this...

https://www.bendixking.com/en/~/media/bendixking/files/2019bk07-aerocruze-230-autopilotpdf-buyers-guide.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, carqwik said:

All I want is for Garmin to produce a box so the G5 can talk to the KFC150 - so I can eliminate the vacuum system and the KI256. 

That would be so easy for them to do but I have my doubts they’ll do it! We’ll find out tomorrow! I’m holding my fingers crossed! They think people will rush to remove their KFC/KAP and buy the GFC500. I’m not doing it and I suspect there are lots of other owners who feel similarly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now this would be a crazy install....

aspen- -> EA100 (digital to analog converter) -> 71 (analog to digital converter) -> aerocruze.

would be nice if BK thought about the possibility of a pure digital input (make it compatible with aspen, G5, etc for airdata without some sort of extra converter).  We’ll see how robust their system design is, I’m sure, in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, M016576 said:

Now this would be a crazy install....

aspen- -> EA100 (digital to analog converter) -> 71 (analog to digital converter) -> aerocruze.

would be nice if BK thought about the possibility of a pure digital input (make it compatible with aspen, G5, etc for airdata without some sort of extra converter).  We’ll see how robust their system design is, I’m sure, in time.

I sure hope not! BK has other digital autopilots including the 225 and 325. If the 230 supports the same external interfaces that the 225 does, then I know my G500 Gad 43e will support it and probably your Aspen too. I am waiting to hear about that as well as (projected) cost of new BK servo's which is another big unknown.  

Edited by kortopates
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I plan to go by the booth in the morning to ask a lot of questions.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I plan to go by the booth in the morning to ask a lot of questions.

Great!

I know you are particularly interested in how it interfaces with Aspen, but ... I for one would be interested to know what else it interfaces with.  Now and in the near future.

And what extras and labor are needed for it to work to replace a KFC200.  You have a KFC150, right?

...they should offer drop digital brushless servo replacements at some point.

I thought they had the most exciting modern safety features: envelope protection and straight and level button, but now I do not see those in the feature set.  Otherwise that strongly tips upgrade to one of the other manufacturers.

Edited by aviatoreb
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/21/2019 at 9:06 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I plan to go by the booth in the morning to ask a lot of questions.

So, what did you ask, and what did they say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PT20J said:

So, what did you ask, and what did they say?

Sorry for being delinquent on this topic.

I asked if any Mooneys are on the current AML. They said the only airplane on the AML today is the A36. They showed me the list of airplanes "up next" and the M20K and M20J are on that list. They told me to expect my K to be on the AML by this August.

I also asked if the KAP150 can be upgraded to the AeroCruze. I was told no, only the KFC autopilots can be upgraded... but then the person I was talking to didn't know that for sure and couldn't explain why. I wasn't able to find anyone who could absolutely answer that question.

I also asked about the upgrade process. They said it's not 100% plug and play but will take just a little wiring. They couldn't give me a definitive answer on the need to overhaul the servos.

It's always frustrating at Oshkosh as you have a lot of sales and marketing people who don't know anymore than I can learn from my laptop, Google, and an hour or two researching.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Sorry for being delinquent on this topic.

I asked if any Mooneys are on the current AML. They said the only airplane on the AML today is the A36. They showed me the list of airplanes "up next" and the M20K and M20J are on that list. They told me to expect my K to be on the AML by this August.

I also asked if the KAP150 can be upgraded to the AeroCruze. I was told no, only the KFC autopilots can be upgraded... but then the person I was talking to didn't know that for sure and couldn't explain why. I wasn't able to find anyone who could absolutely answer that question.

I also asked about the upgrade process. They said it's not 100% plug and play but will take just a little wiring. They couldn't give me a definitive answer on the need to overhaul the servos.

It's always frustrating at Oshkosh as you have a lot of sales and marketing people who don't know anymore than I can learn from my laptop, Google, and an hour or two researching.

I stopped in on Thursday and was mildly impressed. I got to talk to one of their tech support guys who has been around a long time. He said it is a matter of re-pinning the connectors to go from a KFC150 to an AeroCruze230.

They also had a new generation of employees there that were a little clueless on the older stuff. The only difference between a KAP150 and a KFC150 is that the KFC150 supports a flight director, so it uses a KI256 attitude indicator instead of a KG258 attitude gyro. If they didn't include the KAP150 in the STC, they are nuts.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the biggest unknown is the cost and quality of the future servo's. Although the digital 230 is a nice upgrade in itself, its still dependent on my old servo's which can be really expensive to maintain should the motor armature need replacing with a new motor. Going to the 230 seemingly eliminates the servo risk in that BK says they'll "guarantee" , which I interpret as maintain, my old servo's at no extra cost (beyond labor) for another 2 years. But by then, if not sooner, i'll be in need of new servo's. I'd really like to know what the new servo's will cost and if they'll similarly be the new style of brushless motor design. Would hate to find out down the road that the 230 computer was only half or less of the eventual cost of completely updating my AP. I am also hoping the new servo's will mount the same way as my existing ones without having to remove all the old hardware and start over from scratch at the cost of a lot of labor. If so, the Garmin GFC 500 may look like a better path, although I don't think the Aerocruze will rely on GPS aiding like the Garmin does which is another attractive feature.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2019 at 4:06 PM, aviatoreb said:

Holy Cannoli!

Leave the gun, take the cannolis.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, kortopates said:

I'd really like to know what the new servo's will cost and if they'll similarly be the new style of brushless motor design. Would hate to find out down the road that the 230 computer was only half or less of the eventual cost of completely updating my AP. I am also hoping the new servo's will mount the same way as my existing ones without having to remove all the old hardware and start over from scratch at the cost of a lot of labor

Excellent point Paul. Along those lines I’d also like to know if the existing servos are compatible with the new ones. Can the existing servos be replaced one at a time if need be or do they have to all be replaced at once? For example, can I replace say... my pitch servo with a new one and retain the existing roll and pitch/trim until if and when they need to be replaced?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I also asked if the KAP150 can be upgraded to the AeroCruze. I was told no, only the KFC autopilots can be upgraded... but then the person I was talking to didn't know that for sure and couldn't explain why. I wasn't able to find anyone who could absolutely answer that question.

 

17 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The only difference between a KAP150 and a KFC150 is that the KFC150 supports a flight director, so it uses a KI256 attitude indicator instead of a KG258 attitude gyro. If they didn't include the KAP150 in the STC, they are nuts.

I am hoping they realize there are quite a few KAP150 owners out there who would be quite happy to upgrade to the AeroCruze unless you tell them it is not an available upgrade but a straight purchase instead. And, like @gsxrpilot and others, once I put my Aspen into the panel to replace my HSI and AI, the KI256/KG258 differences are moot.

I also feel certain there may be a bit more to the upgrade for all of us with the KAS297B Altitude Pre-Select/VSS since those functions are now included in the 230.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.