Aspen2013 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) As we have all established the only turbo models, after 231's and 252's are rockets and TLS/Bravo planes available that are not acclaims. A few questions if I were to look at purchasing Bravo. The early 2000 models- 1. What is TBO 1800 or 2000 hrs. 2. Does the FIKI TKS system require a lot of maintenance? Does it have problems with porous holes getting plugged up a lot with bug guts? 3. Do most of you find that the engine is making TBO and beyond if you fly your engine the proper way and cruise around 75% power? 4. Does the landing gear motor still have the clutch back spring issues? same motor for the last 40 years of Mooney's? 5. Is the wastegate differential pressure controller reliable and trouble free? Supposed to be the most complex one out there 6. Please provide any input on what to really pay attention to and make sure it works or is corrected or inspected before buying? Thank you Everyone Edited July 19, 2019 by Aspen2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinAir Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) don't forget the 252's that are out there; but if you want a LOT of bang for the buck wrapped in a package that flies fast and efficient up high its the Bravo. There is a BIG difference between the original TLS engine and the wet head design that some of those later got and all Bravos came standard. Regardless do not plan on hitting TBO on the wet head either. Most of them that I have seen hit 1200-1800 of the 2000 hours on the published TBO. The Bravo engine is quite unique, it runs HOT, you should change the oil every 25 hours. A good pre-buy with an A&P that is familiar with these engines will help. Look hard at the turbo and all associated gear, if the bird has the high capacity O2 tank with the 15 year life limit be prepared to pay for the replacement. If you are looking at a Bravo with the cool factory upgrade Moritz gauges in the panel note that many of these seem to have conked out and they are expensive to replace so you may want to budget for a JPI. The TKS works great - I use it frequently flying in MN, ND, and MT. Note that it is recommended to overhaul the two windshield pumps and the two main pumps on an incremental basis and they should not be neglected - again it is recommended to connect with an A&P familiar with the system. I have not had any issues with the gear system. Solid plane that is great for frequent 250-700 mile trips. I put 150-250 hours per year on mine and love it! Edited July 18, 2019 by AustinAir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 In 18 years of ownership - other than the mandatory crank exchange for some - the biggest issues which required dollars are the following: Exhaust system rebuild Speed brakes overhaul Battery replacement x 2 (every 4-5 years) Certain gauges need work/overhaul Electric boost pump rebuild Prop governor overhaul Prop overhaul Strobe light replacement Alternator replace Starter replace O2 tank replace (15 year life, 5 year hydrostatic inspections) O2 regulator rebuild etc etc. Keep in mind this is over a 18 year period and doesn't include overhaul of the KI-256 (twice) and some fixes to some other instruments/radios from time to time. So likely this is typical for most owners. The turbo system has been pretty reliable but the V-band clamp has to be replaced after 3 times removed/reinstalled. And oil/filter changes are pretty much mandatory after 25 hours. BTW, mine's a 1998, the last built before the switch to the Moritz gauges. No TKS so can't help there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Mine is a 2005 I purchased it with around 50 hours on it. I’ve had minimal maintenance issues over my 13 years. I had the turbo rebuilt at 450 hours, under new plane warranty at the time so no cost to me, it was preventative maintenance the MSC sent it in I did the mag rebuilds at 500 hours Had the shock donuts replaced after 6 years Had the O2 bottle done normal maintenance Battery replace after 9 years both were fine, considered maintenance to me Small crack in exhaust, had it fixed. Thats it, oil changes 25 hours, all compressions over 73 All annuals at top MSC’s average $5000 per year. I don’t consider it to be a maintenance pig, been a great plane and pampered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxMike Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 I have owned a 99 Bravo since 2003 when it had 250Hrs. Problems have been Crankshaft AD, many cracks in exhaust system, replace donuts every 5-6 years. Had to tear engine apart to replace crank so I prematurely overhauled alternator, turbo and turbo controllers while the airplane was down. At 1800 hours I had the complete exhaust system overhauled. The plane has about 2200 hours and getting ready to buy new cylinders. No problems yet but I think it is time. The TKS system has been reasonably trouble free. Soon I will have to overhaul the pumps. Attitude Indicator and HSI were overhauled several years ago. No problems with the landing gear. Annuals should be time consuming if the airframe is properly lubricated. I like the airplane but it is nose heavy and it takes some practice to land well. I put an MT prop on it and it is much improved. One of the reasons I bought the long body was the improved comfort. I do lots of days with 5 hour legs and sometimes two 5 hour legs. Previous to the Bravo I owned a T210. It did not have the quality of the Mooney but had less systems so the overall maintenance was a little less. It had boots which were more maintenance intensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 Bravos are highly developed traveling machines... Their owners are quite pleased, as they get what they expected and the plane lives on for a long time... When buying... it has the quirk that comes with most TCs... The first exhaust pipe bits between the exhaust valves and the TC are worth paying attention to... usual maintenance is important to be done properly with the pipe and V-band clamps... Improper re-use of the clamps leads to failures... The pipe is under pressure at high temps and thins out over time, erosion... Broken exhaust parts are not a normal occurrence... but improper maintenance can occur that leads to failures... Don’t let the exhaust escape under the cowling... that has bad juju... Always have a CO monitor to help sense the bad juju... Good luck with the search... will you be needing TT with that? Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAV Ice Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 10:43 PM, Aspen2013 said: Does the FIKI TKS system require a lot of maintenance? Does it have problems with porous holes getting plugged up a lot with bug guts? The TKS system is relatively maintenance free. It is important to run your system according to the POH (even in the summer) and send the pumps in for overhaul when required. We run into problems when owners/operators let their systems sit dormant for 3-4 months in the summer. Pumps seize up, filters get dirty, etc. The porous panels should be cleaned on a regular basis to prevent the holes getting contaminated with bugs and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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