Are all Wingtips compatable?

[Niko182]

If I sell the wingtips off my M20S, are they compatible say with the other mooney's such as the M20C, D, E, F, G, J and K?
 

[kpaul]

4 hours ago, Niko182 said:

If I sell the wingtips off my M20S, are they compatible say with the other mooney's such as the M20C, D, E, F, G, J and K?
 

The counter weights have changed over time.  @gsxrpilothas some after market ones on his K that were intended for older models and some modification was required.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, kpaul said:

The counter weights have changed over time.  @gsxrpilothas some after market ones on his K that were intended for older models and some modification was required.

Do the wing tips change the ailerons (which is what is counterweighted)? I’ve not studied them closely.

I don’t think the twist wing F can accept any wing tip modification but that’s just the 1967 model year (536 airplanes) and a few from late 1966 (3 airplane).

[kpaul]

28 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Do the wing tips change the ailerons (which is what is counterweighted)? I’ve not studied them closely.

I don’t think the twist wing F can accept any wing tip modification but that’s just the 1967 model year (536 airplanes) and a few from late 1966 (3 airplane).

I believe it is the size and shape of the counter weight that causes interference with some of the aftermarket wingtips.  I am assuming it has to do with controlling aileron flutter and feel at the higher speeds that the long body aircraft are capable of achieving.   

[gsxrpilot]

Early model Mooneys with the squared off wing tips have a large piece of the aileron outboard, that contains the counter weight. LASAR has made wingtips that can fit this type of wing without modification to the aileron. 

Later model Mooneys moved the counter weight inside the wing. These Mooneys can accommodate the later factory faired wingtips. 

As @kpaul said, even with the later model Mooneys, the counter weights inside the wing are different sizes. I had to modify the inside of my wingtips (designed for a 201) to accommodate the larger counterweights on my 252.

[kortopates]

4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I had to modify the inside of my wingtips (designed for a 201) to accommodate the larger counterweights on my 252.

When you go to the Encore counter weights, they double in weight protruding much further forward into the wing tips. I had really nice (expen$ive comant) nav antennas buried in my wing tips before that I had to replace with lower profile aluminium Bob Archer nav antennas; which turned out to work fine.

[kortopates]

4 hours ago, kpaul said:

I believe it is the size and shape of the counter weight that causes interference with some of the aftermarket wingtips.  I am assuming it has to do with controlling aileron flutter and feel at the higher speeds that the long body aircraft are capable of achieving.   

I am pretty ignorant on flutter engineering and curious about this myself, but Mooney doubled the weight on the control weights on the 252 to Encore conversion, (on pretty much all but one of two rudder weights). But it clearly wasn't done in response to increased airspeed but for an increase in 230 lbs gross weight.  On the other hand Mooney engineering, in re-examining flutter resistance with more modern tools available over decade later may have just arrived at more fine tuned solution that could be due to other drivers. 

[carusoam]

 

A video that simply shows an example of the dynamics of flutter...

One part wind speed and direction...

Another part weight and center of balance...

A third part center of lift...

When one of these changes in rhythmic harmony, the forces tend to magnify until something changes more permanently...

It seems keeping the center of balance and center of lift, far enough apart, helps keep the natural oscillations from occurring(?)

 

And something altogether humorous since no planes (or dogs) were injured in the making of this video... 

I came across this the other day... and held onto it... thinking somebody may be able to make use of the science...

No place better than a thread that discusses flutter...

MS is possibly one of these places that makes use of some deep science...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[Shadrach]

26 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I am pretty ignorant on flutter engineering and curious about this myself, but Mooney doubled the weight on the control weights on the 252 to Encore conversion, (on pretty much all but one of two rudder weights). But it clearly wasn't done in response to increased airspeed but for an increase in 230 lbs gross weight.  On the other hand Mooney engineering, in re-examining flutter resistance with more modern tools available over decade later may have just arrived at more fine tuned solution that could be due to other drivers. 

I think the same. The attainable TAS (or IAS) range from the slowest to the fastest Mooney just isn’t that great. They are all slow movers in the large scheme of things..