Firehawk335 Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 I’ve currently got an M20J which I consistently put 250hrs a year on, mostly for work which requires me to fly in nearly all conditions, fortunately it’s almost exclusively in the south. I’ve been doing this for 5 years and have not run into any significant icing. However I frequently run into the wife complaining about the heat. I think I’ll be able to move up to a Type S in a year or two. I know there is not enough payload for FIKI and A/C for real world use so I have to choose. A Type S will climb into the teens pretty quickly and once there the temperature is usually tolerable for her. I personally just deal with the heat and see the safety factor of FIKI. Any advice from Type S drivers on what to choose. My normal trip is 300-400 miles with 1-3 people and a light load. Occasional 1000mile vacation trip/camping but this is when I need full fuel and have a heavy load. Thanks for any advice, -Chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 I don’t have any experience with an Acclaim but I had the same issue come up with my Ovation and my thinking was that I’m unlikely to die of heatstroke in the cockpit of my plane. On the other hand, there have been a few times where I was glad I had TKS. My plane is FIKI, but for the type of flying I do I don’t think it makes a difference wherever or not it’s certified for known ice. You will lose a few knots with the TKS. Personally, it doesn’t bother me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 If your normal trip is 1-3 people / 300-400 miles I would be looking Ovation. Those people probably are not going to like being on O2 which you need to make use of the Acclaim speed. I also doubt an Acclaim would beat an Ovation by much at 400 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk335 Posted July 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 An Ovation is not enough speed advantage over the J to justify the upgrade. So it’s a Type S or stay with the J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, Firehawk335 said: An Ovation is not enough speed advantage over the J to justify the upgrade. So it’s a Type S or stay with the J. The Ovation can have Air Conditioning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, smccray said: The Ovation can have Air Conditioning... And/or TKS. Not so much on the J. What kind of useful load do you guys have on the Ovation with full TKS? Would a TKS Eagle have much more? Edited July 12, 2019 by Ragsf15e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 There are a few choices in the Long Body... You can have... O2 installed A/C installed Fiki installed, with or without full tanks Charlie weights O2 doesn’t add much weight since you are going to have a portable anyways... Fiki’s largest weight is possibly the fluid that is stored in them... a bit of a maintenance pain to keep them running... A/C is really important if you are in TX and south Florida and your plane is outside before getting in... You didn’t mention where you base out of, is it a secret? If not, add it to your avatar data collection... Are you familiar with the Charlie weights in Long Bodies? You get to swap them out for UH (useful hardware). The same applies to the O. Putting O2 of a family of four? Wasn’t going to work for me... PP thoughts only, not an Acclaim Type S guy, but I have one of their props... Go Acclaim, get the A/C and keep the financial advisor chilly! I know a guy that has a Fiki Bravo and A/C around here somewhere... Fear not the UL issues with the family... the 100+ gallons of fuel doesn’t always need to be full when you bring them along, most times... 130gallons is available for the days you are solo too... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said: What kind of useful load do you guys have on the Ovation with full TKS? Would a TKS Eagle have much more? ~1k lbs The O has slightly more paint, rudder trim, leather seats, backup vac pump, more avionics, noise insulation, interior lights and visor for the copilot, etc. If the eagle has some/many of these upgrades the weight advantage disappears. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 O is over 1k UL... no AC, FIKI, or O2... plenty of Charlie weights though... Eagle is 1.1k UL... same conditions... Use caution when comparing Eagles... there are some marketing reasons for their existence... undoing some of these can be painfully expensive... but if you end up with a Screamin’ Eagle... That could be painfully pleasant! Use caution when looking at older Os... There is no simple upgrade of the old BK radios like there are for old Big G radios... Nothing would be better than upgrading an older Long Body panel... plenty of space for a few color Screens... ask Don Kaye... he has a few pics he has shared... Garmin has been working close with a few MSers... take a look at panels with Txi and GTN in them... and soon...GFC... all the good stuff... Looking forward to KOSH... Dynon and that other guy... makes some very competitive stuff as well.... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 ~1k lbs The O has slightly more paint, rudder trim, leather seats, backup vac pump, more avionics, noise insulation, interior lights and visor for the copilot, etc. More paint?Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 I was told by a paint shop that when they add multiple colors to an aircraft the base color is still used throughout the plane. They add the additional colors on top of that base. This can add 5-10 lbs from what I understand. 5 lbs for extra lights, 10 ish for more insulation, 8 for the backup pump, etc. Eventually adding up to the 50 lb delta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 @Firehawk335 between now and the Acclaim, a B-Kool portable A/C might help with the temp for your wife. Does not take up too much UL or space, can be running before the plane, and you likely could get it in the next couple of weeks. And if you were to go with the FIKI on the next plane, it could still be used as needed in it, and then it could answer your "or" question with an "and" solution. Just a thought because we all know, if mama ain't happy.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehawk335 Posted July 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 We already do the swamp cooler thing, it’s not ideal. It’s marginal at best and takes up most of our luggage space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 19 hours ago, Firehawk335 said: An Ovation is not enough speed advantage over the J to justify the upgrade. So it’s a Type S or stay with the J. Your mission isn’t going to be appreciably if at all faster in an Acclaim. Run some performance numbers account for climb, descent, etc. while considering if your passengers are comfortable on O2. I would look at a Baron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 Before changing a plane because its too hot, get a BKool and give it a try. 20 pounds of ice can be enough to take the edge off until you get to a comfortable altitude. Shut it off and there's usually enough to cool off a bit on the descent too. A lot cheaper than swapping a plane for AC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 41 minutes ago, hypertech said: Before changing a plane because its too hot, get a BKool and give it a try. 20 pounds of ice can be enough to take the edge off until you get to a comfortable altitude. Shut it off and there's usually enough to cool off a bit on the descent too. A lot cheaper than swapping a plane for AC. $250 solution to a $750,000 problem. Me likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: $250 solution to a $750,000 problem. Me likes. I think your math is off ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Firehawk335 said: We already do the swamp cooler thing, it’s not ideal. It’s marginal at best and takes up most of our luggage space. What brand? Please post your pirep. Most who use the BCool have positive reviews. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert C. Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 I fly an O3 with A/C in (out of) Connecticut. The effects of the A/C are mildly noticeable while on the ground, but not a game changer. If you've sat on a hot ramp for a couple of hours enjoying lunch or an outing there is no way the A/C will get it comfortable before take off. I'd swap my A/C for FIKI in a heartbeat. Once I climb above 4000ft ( which is after 4 minutes from T/O) the point/benefit of A/C is moot as the vent gets temps down to a reasonable level and when you get to 9k it is supremely comfortable. Good luck with the negotiations Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exM20K Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) How well does th A/C work in the Mooney’s? A few flights in Diamond twins were underwhelming, but maybe it was a poor charge on the A/C. Edit... timing is everything. I see my question is answered one post above. Thanks @Robert C. Edited July 12, 2019 by exM20K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 The best AC is a turbo. Passing 10k on the way to 17k the ride smooths out and the temps cool down. At altitude the OAC is below 0. All is good until time to come down. My vote is TKS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, M20F said: I think your math is off ;-) I have a PhD in math. And there are three kinds of mathematicians - those that can count, and those that can't. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 10 hours ago, aviatoreb said: I have a PhD in math. And there are three kinds of mathematicians - those that can count, and those that can't. Hence the ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 A Pic for my favorite flying mathematician... @aviatoreb Awesome Australian meat pies... not quite the flying pi guy... -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, carusoam said: A Pic for my favorite flying mathematician... @aviatoreb Awesome Australian meat pies... not quite the flying pi guy... -a- Yummy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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