Politics

[Steve W]

I think this thread 107% proves that we really need to keep politics and even non-aviation discussions somewhere else where moderators have the time and energy to keep things under control.

 

[Tommy]

6 hours ago, afward said:

You do realize that there are highly credentialed people in the world (read: people with brilliant-looking CV's) that would fail your "test" gloriously, right?

Don't insult our intelligence by presuming we need you to show us who is believable and who isn't.  That's not OK, and takes a hell of an ego to think otherwise.

Sure. Name me one. 

Don't insult our intelligence by presuming that you don't need to show us that you are believable when you made comments on highly technical and scientific problems that we have with our birds. That's not OK and it's more just being egotistical, it's downright dangerous and criminal. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Tommy

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

A contribution that goes against your belief and ideology will always be deemed as negative just like how you called political views against yours "un-American." 

My biggest contribution to MS is to expose people like you who cherry pick science when it's convenient and whose "science" is dictated by their beliefs, yet have the audacity to offer technical advices that are well within the realm of science. 

MS members have the right to know how much they can trust advices given by people like you. 

Without a valid CV, talking about politicized sciences is one of the rare ways - if not the only way - to find out. 

You don't know me, my politics nor anything about me other than I’m a Mooney owner. For the most part I avoid political discussions. If I’ve been politically contrary to you in the past, pleas attributed much of it to my dislike of the fact that you always try to inject politics into a discussion. You are an ideologically possessed person. You are constantly trying to ferret out who’s on your ideological team and who is not and then attempting to draw your newly labeled enemy into conflict based on your limited assessment. It drives almost every contribution you make. News flash for Tommy your online persona is unkind, abrasive, obnoxious argumentative and overconfident. You are the guy that goes out of your way to find conflict. I stand by my earlier statement that we’d manage without you. I do so because most your posts are political, antagonistic and have of little to do with Mooneys. I think you claiming a lack of contribution is due to lack of expertise on Mooneys is an obvious display of false humility. I say this because you’re expert enough on all subjects political to label your perceived opponents as stupid. Mooneys are somewhat complicated machines but far less complicated than almost any political subject. The fact that you feel confident judging the worth of people you’ve never met based on your online assessment of their political beliefs yet at the same time claim a lack of confidence in contributing to this forum’s main subject (Mooneys) says a great deal about you.  You may be quite bright but you never showcase it. You appear to be too busy demonstrating that you’re a contrarian ideologue consumed with hunting down and attacking your enemies.

I’m done wrestling with this particular pig. Please enjoy having the last word...

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shadrach

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

You don't know me, my politics nor anything about me other than I’m a Mooney owner. For the most part I avoid political discussions. If I’ve been politically contrary to you in the past, pleas attributed much of it to my dislike of the fact that you always try to inject politics into a discussion. You are an ideologically possessed person. You are constantly trying to ferret out who’s on your ideological team and who is not and then attempting to draw your newly labeled enemy into conflict based on your limited assessment. It drives almost every contribution you make. News flash for Tommy your online persona is unkind, abrasive, obnoxious argumentative and overconfident. You are the guy that goes out of your way to find conflict. I stand by my earlier statement that we’d manage without you. I do so because most your posts are political, antagonistic and have of little to do with Mooneys. I think you claiming a lack of contribution is due to lack of expertise on Mooneys is an obvious display of false humility. I say this because you’re expert enough on all subjects political to label your perceived opponents as stupid. Mooneys are somewhat complicated machines but far less complicated than almost any political subject. The fact that you feel confident judging the worth of people you’ve never met based on your online assessment of their political beliefs yet at the same time claim a lack of confidence in contributing to this forum’s main subject (Mooneys) says a great deal about you.  You may be quite bright but you never showcase it. You appear to be too busy demonstrating that you’re a contrarian ideologue consumed with hunting down and attacking your enemies.

I’m done wrestling with this particular pig. Please enjoy having the last word...

For someone who is unhappy to be judged and cries foul of some online stranger not knowing you, you sure love to judge and seems to have some rather unhealthy Freudian fascination of me.

Let's see: "ideologically possessed," "unkind", "abrasive", "obnoxious", "argumentative", "overconfident", "goes out of your way to find conflict", "manage without you", "display of false humility", "expert enough on all subjects political", "You may be quite bright but you never showcase it", " contrarian ideologue consumed with hunting down and attacking your enemies." "particular pig."

You sounded like the bitter whining ex that every one hates... 

But who are you kidding? Mate, you are Political with a capital P! How do I know? Because you were absolutely triggered when I replied to Mike @201er and Tony. I don't recall ever singling you out yet you were the only MS member who felt compelled enough to jump right into it. Your rage was palpable. You said I am a pig and told me to piss off? Why? Because I said that I don't trust advices on scientific matter - including aviation - given by a stranger on the net who don't know how science works and one of the few ways to quickly work that out is to discuss politicized science. Until such time there is another quick and easy way of ascertaining some stranger's credential, that will be my modus operandi. So if you don't like it, you can try to build a bridge and get over it.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Tommy

[Niko182]

You guys are like children.

[mike_elliott]

 A Forum for this sort of behaviour for Mooney owners has existed for years already. It has run many great contributors off, and made people who used to like each other on the internet develop a hate. It was developed for the sole purpose of taking the political hate out of the main mooney lists and still providing a forum for those that must feel they have to impose their ideology onto others.

Feel free to sign up and take this garbage there. Be very thick skinned.

http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-talk

 

[midlifeflyer]

53 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

You guys are like children.

..also known as "talking about politics."

[afward]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Sure. Name me one. 

Dr Duncan I. Steel, BSc, MSc, DIC, PhD, FRAS.  Discovered 12 minor planets. Former ESA Research Fellow at Lunds Observatoriet. Established and directed first Southern Hemisphere program to detect and track near-Earth asteroids. Technical expert to Australian Department of Defence. Noted climate skeptic.

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Don't insult our intelligence by presuming that you don't need to show us that you are believable when you made comments on highly technical and scientific problems that we have with our birds. That's not OK and it's more just being egotistical, it's downright dangerous and criminal. 

This...  isn't a coherent response to what I said, and shows a deep lack of knowledge as to what I've posted on these forums.  Rule number one of hurling insults: Know your target.

Frankly, nobody has to prove anything to anyone here.  It's the internet, by definition none of us should be believed without significant reading and cross-checking.  Approaching it from any other angle is pretty well guaranteed to end in [virtual] tears.

And with that, I say adieu to this thread...

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Niko182 said:

You guys are like children.

Not about politics.  I don’t care about anyone’s political beliefs.  It is about confronting someone who comes to this board primarily to troll. He brings very little to the forum besides his politics. I don’t expect any support. However, I read your post as an equivocation of our motives and actions. If that’s the case then you’ve misread the situation.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

..also known as "talking about politics."

I’ve not made a single political statement in this thread.  This is not two guys arguing politics. This is one guy that’s grown weary of another guy that brings little more than politics and vitriol to these boards.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shadrach

[Tommy]

35 minutes ago, afward said:

Dr Duncan I. Steel, BSc, MSc, DIC, PhD, FRAS.  Discovered 12 minor planets. Former ESA Research Fellow at Lunds Observatoriet. Established and directed first Southern Hemisphere program to detect and track near-Earth asteroids. Technical expert to Australian Department of Defence. Noted climate skeptic.

This...  isn't a coherent response to what I said, and shows a deep lack of knowledge as to what I've posted on these forums.  Rule number one of hurling insults: Know your target.

Frankly, nobody has to prove anything to anyone here.  It's the internet, by definition none of us should be believed without significant reading and cross-checking.  Approaching it from any other angle is pretty well guaranteed to end in [virtual] tears.

And with that, I say adieu to this thread...

Ok, set aside the obvious fact that he is no climate scientist, take a look at his opinion piece in the Guardian back in 2002(!). First sentence: "There can be little doubt that global warming is real." https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2002/dec/05/comment.climatechange

Few red flags: 1) he didn't give a single reference in his opinion piece even though he made some extraordinary claims including "Global warming, then, is great because it protects us from the unpredictable big freeze that would be far, far worse." 2) A quick google search of Dr. Duncan in relation to climate change turns up with 5 results. Hardly an authoritative figure, is he? 3) He doesn't fly or own a Mooney.

I didn't ask anyone to prove anything and I found your "trust no one" approach is rather grim. It's my own method of assessment of someone's credibility which is largely based on discussion of politicized science. Normally I prefer to look at someone's CV and talk to their referees but you can't really do that here , can you? 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Tommy

[PTK]

Sooooooooooooooooooo............ let's seeeeeee......... LOP anyone??! 

[RogueOne]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

Not about politics.  I don’t care about anyone’s political beliefs.  It is about confronting someone who comes to this board primarily to troll. He brings very little to the forum besides his politics. I don’t expect any support. However, I read your post as an equivocation of our motives and actions. If that’s the case then you’ve misread the situation.

And there is the rub.  You know him to be a troll and yet you engage.  Believe me I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND where you are coming from.  Resist.  Trolls only build themselves up with the feeding.  It is a waste of time.  VERY similar to trying to “change” someone’s core beliefs.  No one cares about YOUR beliefs and politics.  They care about THEIR beliefs and politics.  Some are in one tribe.  Some are in another.  Some wish to avoid conflict at all costs and find BOTH sides offensive.  There is no harmony to be found.  Just like talking about religion and money (how much you have or don’t have) NOBODY wants to hear it.

I will of course now be watching your technical contributions very closely as you are now suspected of being “one of those”

 

[afward]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Ok, set aside the obvious fact that he is no climate scientist, ...

Few red flags: ... 2) A quick google search of Dr. Duncan in relation to climate change turns up with 5 results. Hardly an authoritative figure, is he? 3) He doesn't fly or own a Mooney.

Penalty flag: Moving the goalposts.  You obviously aren't making a good faith effort to have a good conversation.  Welcome to my ignore list.

ALL: If anyone needed any proof as to why politics should continue to be banned on MS, can we agree that this thread is it?

[Yetti]

14 hours ago, Tommy said:

Venus, look it up. 

Again, I stand by my comment that it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." when it comes to my defence of lacking contribution. 

Oh looky a cat fight.   Nice job bringing in religion into the conversation.  Proverbs 17:28  ²⁸ Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise;  when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

I’ve not made a single political statement is thread.  This is not two guys arguing politics. This is one guy that’s grown weary of another guy that brings little more than politics and vitriol to these boards.

A rebuke goes deeper into a man of understanding;  than a hundred blows into a fool

[Tommy]

 

16 minutes ago, afward said:

Penalty flag: Moving the goalposts.  You obviously aren't making a good faith effort to have a good conversation.  Welcome to my ignore list.

ALL: If anyone needed any proof as to why politics should continue to be banned on MS, can we agree that this thread is it?

Moving goal posts? Not making a good faith effort to have a good conversation? Huh? I took up your challenge and checked out this Dr. Steel of yours - an astronomer with 5 google hits on climate related search and one unreferenced opinion piece in The Guardian back in 2002, in which he claimed global warming is real but it's good because it prevents ice age. Hardly an authoritative figure, right?  

I got to admit, I was initially hoping that you will give me a well known, well respected name within Mooney community who happens to be a climate skeptic and/or anti-vaxxer and/or  creationist.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Tommy

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, RogueOne said:

And there is the rub.  You know him to be a troll and yet you engage.  Believe me I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND where you are coming from.  Resist.  Trolls only build themselves up with the feeding.  It is a waste of time.  VERY similar to trying to “change” someone’s core beliefs.  No one cares about YOUR beliefs and politics.  They care about THEIR beliefs and politics.  Some are in one tribe.  Some are in another.  Some wish to avoid conflict at all costs and find BOTH sides offensive.  There is no harmony to be found.  Just like talking about religion and money (how much you have or don’t have) NOBODY wants to hear it.

I will of course now be watching your technical contributions very closely as you are now suspected of being “one of those”

 

 If I had to do again I would’ve likely ignored him. To reiterate this is not about his politics or changing his mind. It is about having an admitted ideologue on this board. Poeple (intelligent or otherwise) can disagree on any number of subjects. However, when a person becomes ideologically possessed they demean their opposition. The notion that those that don’t agree with them are stupid is a baby step to those that don’t agree with them are beneath them. A few steps from there is the position that those that don’t agree with them are the problem with the world. A few steps from there is the position that those that don’t agree with them are subhuman. And then we arrive at the finish line of calling for ideological purity and finally Authoritarianism. Left or Right, I don’t care for ideologically possessed people.  History is full of bad actions made by ideologues both Left and Right. 

There are plenty of folks on this board who occasionally let their politics slip into a post. There is only one person on this board that maligns those that aren’t aligned with his political views as stupid...Only one. 

If making that person aware of the fact that I like neither their posts nor the discord they bring to this forum is feeding a troll, then so be it.

Again I didn’t expect any public support but Acting to demean one’s political opposition should not be a political issue. Reasonable people both Left and Right should not stand for it.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shadrach

[bradp]

There’s less than a 32.333 repeating of course percent of this thread going anywhere useful.  

 

[afward]

1 minute ago, bradp said:

There’s less than a 32.333 repeating of course percent of this thread going anywhere useful.

That high?

[Yetti]

I gots lots of material

A joyful heart is good medicine,  but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.

[xcrmckenna]

I would enjoy a section to hate on Bonanza owners, over a political section... Except Scott and Ken of course!!! :!)


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[gsxrpilot]

The ignore user option is great.... I've had this running since the first post I read...

Now I'd like an option to ignore an entire thread. 

[Skates97]

9 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The ignore user option is great.... I've had this running since the first post I read...

Now I'd like an option to ignore an entire thread. 

It works great, until someone quotes that person that I'm ignoring and I see their post. Of course then it serves as a reminder why I am ignoring them in the first place.

[aviatoreb]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

The ignore user option is great.... I've had this running since the first post I read...

Now I'd like an option to ignore an entire thread. 

How do I find that option?  I can't find it.  (Real question - not simply rhetorical).