Training issue

[Mufflerbearing]

So, 26 years ago I didn't finish my PPL as life changed.  Now life has changed again and I'm back flying regularly getting proficient to finish my PPL.  Around here, in North Idaho, there really is one school and this is a back country flying area, so the planes are tail draggers for the most part.  I have been flying a C175 tail dragger which I have grown to like.  Last week, another student ground looped the C175 and nailed the right wing and tail making the plane I have been flying out of commission for ???   No one really knows.  The other two planes they have for training will now be over booked in the near future.  I have some options.

1) be patient and try to fly one of the other two planes and use elbows when booking time

2) buy a simple plane to finish my ppl like a C152 or C172 and build time for next year, with plans to start to work on my IR

3) buy the Mooney I want right now and get my instruction in it now and get my ppl in it and then work on my IR. 

My original plan was to get the plane I want in about a year, but with this kerfuffel, maybe now is the time.

I know that finding a used plane that checks all the boxes is really hard to do.  I have found one that is super close.  It is a 1999 Mooney S Eagle.  It is outfitted with newer glass and TKS. 

Your thoughts?

[midlifeflyer]

Of you ultimately want a Moooney, I would get one now as opposed to buying something else and switching later, if you have been flying a taildragger, a Mooney will not be difficult,

[Niko182]

18 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

So, 26 years ago I didn't finish my PPL as life changed.  Now life has changed again and I'm back flying regularly getting proficient to finish my PPL.  Around here, in North Idaho, there really is one school and this is a back country flying area, so the planes are tail draggers for the most part.  I have been flying a C175 tail dragger which I have grown to like.  Last week, another student ground looped the C175 and nailed the right wing and tail making the plane I have been flying out of commission for ???   No one really knows.  The other two planes they have for training will now be over booked in the near future.  I have some options.

1) be patient and try to fly one of the other two planes and use elbows when booking time

2) buy a simple plane to finish my ppl like a C152 or C172 and build time for next year, with plans to start to work on my IR

3) buy the Mooney I want right now and get my instruction in it now and get my ppl in it and then work on my IR. 

My original plan was to get the plane I want in about a year, but with this kerfuffel, maybe now is the time.

I know that finding a used plane that checks all the boxes is really hard to do.  I have found one that is super close.  It is a 1999 Mooney S Eagle.  It is outfitted with newer glass and TKS. 

Your thoughts?

The mooney eagle is a lot of plane for a person with out his/her PPL. However. I kindof did the same and went from 130 hours in a J-3/172 to the eagle. Its a big step but it is possible. I will say that if you like back country, the mooney might not be the best option. It will go in and out of 2500ft grass strips, but it doesnt feel at home doing so. IMO the eagle is the best aircraft made along with the encore, so youre looking at the right model mooney wise. It is a big jump but possible. Insurance the first year is gonna be hefty, but nothing someone paying 200k for an aircraft cant afford. My first year was 4500. Second year and an additional 200 hours was 2100. Also that eagle will sell quickly. Just FYI. There are only 60ish eagles and they have a massive useful load. Mine has 1140lbs. That one will probably have around 1080 with the tks. The moritz gauges will have to go eventually. Theyll break and they arent worth fixing.

As stated, good eagles go quickly. The one i purchased was on the market for about a week. I doubt the one youre looking at will be available for more than 2 weeks. Good luck.

[gsxrpilot]

If you can afford it, and it's what you want... go for it. As other's are saying, the Eagle is a really nice airplane. 

If you're looking for an airplane to go to Johnson Creek, this is probably the wrong one. If you're looking for something to get you out of Idaho for weekends in Seattle, Denver, Chicago? This is the plane you want, no question about it.

[Mufflerbearing]

Thanks!  The comment about being back country is to frame the picture of what is available here for rental.  If I do back country, I'll either rent the 175 or maybe buy a carbon cub.  I want the Mooney for traveling to race tracks that I rent for our business and to see the grand kid!

I appreciate this forum as I have done a ton of research and I thought I had a good plan.  But semper gumby, always flexible!

[DXB]

49 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

So, 26 years ago I didn't finish my PPL as life changed.  Now life has changed again and I'm back flying regularly getting proficient to finish my PPL.  Around here, in North Idaho, there really is one school and this is a back country flying area, so the planes are tail draggers for the most part.  I have been flying a C175 tail dragger which I have grown to like.  Last week, another student ground looped the C175 and nailed the right wing and tail making the plane I have been flying out of commission for ???   No one really knows.  The other two planes they have for training will now be over booked in the near future.  I have some options.

1) be patient and try to fly one of the other two planes and use elbows when booking time

2) buy a simple plane to finish my ppl like a C152 or C172 and build time for next year, with plans to start to work on my IR

3) buy the Mooney I want right now and get my instruction in it now and get my ppl in it and then work on my IR. 

My original plan was to get the plane I want in about a year, but with this kerfuffel, maybe now is the time.

I know that finding a used plane that checks all the boxes is really hard to do.  I have found one that is super close.  It is a 1999 Mooney S Eagle.  It is outfitted with newer glass and TKS. 

Your thoughts?

What a pain. How close are you to your PPL?  Buying and learning a Mooney now may slow you down a lot more than fighting for time on one of the other basic trainers at your school, particularly if you are near finishing.  If you are near finishing, then it is also not a bad time to start looking for that Mooney you really want, but I doubt it makes sense to take your check ride in it.  Then get the Eagle, find the right instructor for it, and do your IR.

[Danb]

MB I’d get the eagle now if possible as you mentioned a good Mooney is difficult to find let alone an eagle or encore, you’ll regret not jumping on it especially if it’s a good one.

[201Steve]

+1 for getting it now. +2 for the username. 

 

[Mufflerbearing]

57 minutes ago, DXB said:

What a pain. How close are you to your PPL?  Buying and learning a Mooney now may slow you down a lot more than fighting for time on one of the other basic trainers at your school, particularly if you are near finishing.  If you are near finishing, then it is also not a bad time to start looking for that Mooney you really want, but I doubt it makes sense to take your check ride in it.  Then get the Eagle, find the right instructor for it, and do your IR.

I walked away with finishing all of my requirements except for the night flying requirements.  I had 45 hours then.  I have since flown an additional 20 recently in the 175.  I didn't mind training in the tail wheel because I'll get a tail wheel endorsement.  I also understand flying this crate makes for being a better pilot.  I'm in for really good training to be a really good pilot.  I coach seasoned race car drivers because they see the value in continued and good training.  I do too.  I'm not in a real hurry, but want to do things right with a great outcome.

[DXB]

8 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I walked away with finishing all of my requirements except for the night flying requirements.  I had 45 hours then.  I have since flown an additional 20 recently in the 175.  I didn't mind training in the tail wheel because I'll get a tail wheel endorsement.  I also understand flying this crate makes for being a better pilot.  I'm in for really good training to be a really good pilot.  I coach seasoned race car drivers because they see the value in continued and good training.  I do too.  I'm not in a real hurry, but want to do things right with a great outcome.

If you're enjoying the process and don't mind the significant delay to your PPL if you switch to a Mooney, then there's nothing wrong with it per se.  I know someone who did his PPL in a Bonanza (similar performance and complexity) and has never flown any other plane.  I think the deciding factor will be whether you have an instructor who really knows Mooneys and is up for the challenge of doing primary training in one. Someone might not be that easy to find. I suspect even some seasoned Mooney instructors wouldn't want to teach for PPL in one.  On the other hand, there are young instructors without Mooney experience who would jump at the chance - you have to say away from those too.

[Niko182]

If you understand that it take time to learn this aircraft, then i wouldnt worry about it. It takes time to learn in the plane. I had about 23 hours in the plane dual before i went solo. I wouldnt recommend going anywhere with it before you get 15 or so hours and get really comfortable with it.

[Mufflerbearing]

5 minutes ago, DXB said:

If you're enjoying the process and don't mind the significant delay to your PPL if you switch to a Mooney, then there's nothing wrong with it per se.  I know someone who did his PPL in a Bonanza (similar performance and complexity) and has never flown any other plane.  I think the deciding factor will be whether you have an instructor who really knows Mooneys and is up for the challenge of doing primary training in one. Someone might not be that easy to find. I suspect even some seasoned Mooney instructors wouldn't want to teach for PPL in one.  On the other hand, there are young instructors without Mooney experience who would jump at the chance - you have to say away from those too.

I recognize the delay in my ppl, but I'll have to do transitional training anyhow.  I believe the school owner will/can give me the training in the Mooney.  I'll certainly ask.  You are right on with the last comment on young CFI who would jump at the chance.  Not interested there.

[Niko182]

1 minute ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I recognize the delay in my ppl, but I'll have to do transitional training anyhow.  I believe the school owner will/can give me the training in the Mooney.  I'll certainly ask.  You are right on with the last comment on young CFI who would jump at the chance.  Not interested there.

I would look for someone who knows the mooney. Not just a traditional. Everyone can fly a pa28 or a 172, but when you move to more specialized aircrafts such as bonanzas, mooneys, cirrus', and ttx /400, you want someone who knows these models and the special little touches. If your instructor is used to 175 185 bushwagons, hes in for a surprise the momment he starts the decent. Even with the speed brakes, its not that hard to bust vne.

[Mufflerbearing]

4 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I would look for someone who knows the mooney. Not just a traditional. Everyone can fly a pa28 or a 172, but when you move to more specialized aircrafts such as bonanzas, mooneys, cirrus', and ttx /400, you want someone who knows these models and the special little touches. If your instructor is used to 175 185 bushwagons, hes in for a surprise the momment he starts the decent. Even with the speed brakes, its not that hard to bust vne.

Roger that!

By the way, I love your quote

A mile of road will take you a mile
A mile of runway will take you around the world.

This speaks to me.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Mufflerbearing

[MIm20c]

Take your time looking at planes. This eagle is the same as many ovations including the UL because it has oxygen, tks, leather, and upgraded paint ~1000 lbs. Carefully look over the model that caught your eye. It’s had a couple tear downs, a few tail strikes, and extensive wing work. There is no rush with this price point in planes. They normally last at least a month on the market. 

[201er]

Big mistake having the typical or back country instructor giving you primary and specialized training in a Mooney! As important as it is to find the right plane is to find the right Mooney instructor to go with it. I think it will be easier to finish your private and then get a more modest number of hours with a Mooney instructor after (even if it’s half way across the county). 

Edited July 8, 2019 by 201er

[lamont337]

No doubt there are other students that are in the same boat. Perhaps the conditions are right for a partnership or to form a flying club and purchase a suitable trainer. If you only own a share it might be easier to move on from. 

[Mufflerbearing]

10 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Take your time looking at planes. This eagle is the same as many ovations including the UL because it has oxygen, tks, leather, and upgraded paint ~1000 lbs. Carefully look over the model that caught your eye. It’s had a couple tear downs, a few tail strikes, and extensive wing work. There is no rush with this price point in planes. They normally last at least a month on the market. 

Thank you for your input.  I have been watching the Ovations, but this Eagle came up.  Where did you find the history?  I'm just looking at the engine logs.  The ad did say that there was a fire on one wing after a flooded start.  I appreciate your wise words of no rush.  There really isn't is there?

 

8 minutes ago, 201er said:

Big mistake having the typical or back country instructor giving you primary and specialized training in a Mooney! As important as it is to find the right plane is to find the right Mooney instructor to go with it. I think it will be easier to finish your private and then get a more modest number of hours with a Mooney instructor after (even if it’s half way across the county). 

I agree that proper instruction is priceless.  As mentioned and I appreciate the reminder,  there is no hurry here.  Regardless, the immediate choice is to rent the 172 and champ.  The other two planes in the fleet for student pilots.

[Mooney 217RN]

Pardon me for weighing in, but here's my two cents on this - 

The M20S is a great plane.  I looked hard at getting one, but decided for the M20R Ovation 2GX.  

I came out of an E Model.  I flew the wings off that 1974 E Model over 19 years.  When I stepped into the Ovation, it was a handful compared to what I was accustomed to.  I would highly recommend you reconsider on the Eagle.  It took me a significant amount of time to transition into the Ovation.  I can't see how someone could do their private pilot in one.  

That said, I have a good friend who is a really phenomenal CFII/MEI/ATP.  He is a Mooney certified instructor.  He did a private pilot's license for someone that got a 201.  All this person's training flights were in a 201.  I can see that as a reality.  When I did my initial flight training 20 years ago, the flight school where I rented from had an E Model.  I did some training in that.  

I would highly recommend an M20J 201 for flight training.  

You need a Mooney instructor however, no question about that.

[KLRDMD]

17 minutes ago, Mooney 217RN said:

He is a Mooney certified instructor. 

When did this become a thing and how does one become a Mooney Certified Instructor ?

[201er]

20 minutes ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I agree that proper instruction is priceless.  As mentioned and I appreciate the reminder,  there is no hurry here.  Regardless, the immediate choice is to rent the 172 and champ.  The other two planes in the fleet for student pilots.

What I mean is you might not be able to find a qualified Mooney instructor locally to do all your primary and advanced training. You might need to travel to a different place to get that instruction or bring the instructor in. If you already have your private and some experience, you should be able to add on the Mooney specific training in a week or few days. But doing all your primary, unless the instructor is local, wouldn’t be very practical or convenient. On the other hand having your regular instructor learn to fly your Mooney on your dime in order to teach you may not be t either.

So in conclusion, you may be better off trying to find your Mooney instructor first rather than finding your Mooney plane.

[Immelman]

The tailwheel training gave you a big leg up on going Mooney early. Assuming you soloed in it and are GOOD at landing it, you are in a better position to go to the Mooney.

Go get the plane you want and finish in that. It will take more more hours dual, but that will help on getting the insurance under control.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Immelman

[201Steve]

7 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

When did this become a thing and how does one become a Mooney Certified Instructor ?

I can’t figure out why there are so many Mooney drivers that act like a Mooney is an SR-71. “Make sure he’s an expert in Mooney instruction” “if he’s not a Mooney master, you’ll probably die” “Ensure that his soul has been christened by Al Mooney”.  

Ok, relax... I’m just being dramatic. I’m way less experienced than most people and I accept my position in the dish pit.  I equally love the passion, but I am finding it very over the top that so many people are consistently making a persons situation more difficult by insinuating these scenarios that somehow an instructor in Idaho who also happens to train tail wheel is too far removed from the ability to fly a Mooney. It’s an airplane. It has its own characteristics. They all do. I would hope that any CFI would know that. If he didn’t, god help us. A well rounded instructor that has flown various aircraft Should not be type limited because they don’t have 2,000 hours in a Mooney. 

I say this from experience. I felt like people were making me think if the instructor didn’t have a Mooney tattoo on their forearm, I was doomed. I ended up doing my complex endorsement when I got my J with a CFI that had about 2 hours of Mooney time because there was no Mooney god available to me within reason. We went up in the airplane, learned it’s habits, and whaddya know, we were able to fly the airplane! I was shocked based on what I’d read. ****It would have been nice to use someone with a Mooney tattoo, and I actually look forward to the opportunity, but it’s a process of fine tuning...which is true of anything you fly. I’ve also done a lot of homework on my own. Asked questions, sought out other owners.... but for crying out loud, it’s a complex airplane not a skunk works developed rocket ship. 

I’ll probably draw eyebrows from this, just know that I respect you, this is just my position. 

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

This eagle is the same as many ovations including the UL because it has oxygen, tks, leather, and upgraded paint ~1000 lbs. Carefully look over the model that caught your eye. It’s had a couple tear downs, a few tail strikes, and extensive wing work. There is no rush with this price point in planes. They normally last at least a month on the market.

It has a 1143LBS useful load. As for the damage history, That's a lot of damage to a 20 year old plane.

[MIm20c]

1 minute ago, Niko182 said:

It has a 1143LBS useful load. As for the damage history, That's a lot of damage to a 20 year old plane.

Maybe before the engine was installed