Fuel Sender (Transmitter) Question - M20C

[Toothdok50]

My plane is having fuel gauge issues.  One tank is always reading full.  The other seems unreliable as it doesn't seem to change during a fuel burn.  I'm thinking its time to have the fuel senders refurbished.  I'd like to pick up a set for my M20C and get them serviced--if need be--so that I'm not grounded while their off and being redone.

I'm a bit puzzled about part numbers.  My parts catalog that came with the plane, shows a R fuel sender with part number 5641991 and a L fuel sender with part number 5642354.  The only ones I can find online are part number 610242-003, and the seller say they're fuel senders for Mooney M20 series aircraft.  The electrical schematic details two different fuel senders with different call out numbers that reference two distinct part numbers in the following list.

I'm lost here guys and could really use some guidance as to what I'm looking for.  Is there actually a L unit that is distinct from the R unit?  Are they the same?  Is a 610242-003 the correct part for my M20C S/N 2303?  Hope the community can provide some guidance...  I'm sure someone has some answers for me.

[carusoam]

I think I am connecting the same question together...

Many people will be reading this and answering long detailed answers that may already be in the other thread.

There aren’t any responses on this one yet...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[drapo]

I used http://www.airpartsoflockhaven.com/ when my fuel senders started to show signs of innacuracies. They overhauled each units for about $175. Just make sure your problem isn’t the fuel gauges.

[Stephen]

also consider CIES digital units as replacement if you are pulling senders out anyway....

 

https://ciescorp.net 

[S.C.]

I agree with Stephen.  I had mine refurbished last year.  It was only slightly cheaper than replacing with digital.  Were I to do it again, I’d have invested in the digital set.  Mine are working fine, now I have to do the dread task of remeasuring my fuel stick to make sure it is calibrated with the same accuracy as the gauge.  (Yes, I realize I’ve opened a can of worms and know the best procedure to follow, it’s just the time and patience factor).  

[Jim Peace]

I would have given you my old ones from my C.  They actually worked perfect.....nobody showed interest so I threw them out.....

[Stephen]

14 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I would have given you my old ones from my C.  They actually worked perfect.....nobody showed interest so I threw them out.....

I gave mine  away too, I think if people asked when they need them there are quite a few of us that have converted. 

[lithium366]

On 7/2/2019 at 5:27 AM, drapo said:

I used http://www.airpartsoflockhaven.com/ when my fuel senders started to show signs of innacuracies. They overhauled each units for about $175. Just make sure your problem isn’t the fuel gauges.

Any advise on how to diagnose where the problem is? I have the same issue and not sure if this is senders or gauges or connections or all together

[carusoam]

Remove and clean and test... both the sensor and the gauge... helps to have a volt meter and resistance meter and a mechanic...

Floats often leak and don’t perform as expected...

the arms are hinged, and dirt, gunk, and corrosion, inhibits their motion...

Some arms have gotten bent over time... they won’t travel the right arc...

the multi segmented resistor can get oxidized, or dirty and disable some of the segments...

any electrical connection can get dirty or corroded over the years... fully cleaning them is a great way to start...

Sending them to lockhaven is a great way to rehab them...

Swapping them out for Ceis is a great treatment for a forever-plane...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[mark21m20c]

We have a jpi 930 and are going to add cies units. Will the 930 need to be reprogramed ? aircraft is a m20c 1967 with original fuel senders. 

[kortopates]

We have a jpi 930 and are going to add cies units. Will the 930 need to be reprogramed ? aircraft is a m20c 1967 with original fuel senders. 

Yes, and for a fee, plus you’ll want to get the JPI harness to reduce installation issues.


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[carusoam]

Ultimately using the frequency type sensor is best...

To have the JPI update to use frequency requires sending it in...

Best regards,

-a-

[Gary0747]

The newest EDM900 software allows the change by the user.  Just install the new senders by the wiring diagram and change them in the set up step of the program. Not sure if the newer 930 have the same feature. 

[steingar]

Says me figure out your aircraft's fuel burn and look at your watch.  I've never trusted fuel gauges in airplanes and I never will.  The ones in the Lucky Strike are legal, but useless.  One of the lower priority items for me.

[mark21m20c]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 4:04 PM, Gary0747 said:

The newest EDM900 software allows the change by the user.  Just install the new senders by the wiring diagram and change them in the set up step of the program. Not sure if the newer 930 have the same feature. 

Called JPI and they said the newer 930 have the same feature . Ordered the cies fuel senders today ( two week turn). 

Thank You!!

[Stephen M20C]

I do have one freshly rebuilt (by AirParts of LockHaven) M20C fuel sensor. Part no. is 610420-01, as were both the others that I installed, they are identical and work fine on either side. For the kind of flying I do (I commute to work, about an hour away, three to four times a month), the accuracy of the CIES units wasn't needed. I fly by time (as a previous poster recommended), but for my friends who have the CIES senders with a JPI 900/930 or similar, the accuracy is absolutely amazing. My rebuilt senders are much better than the malfunctioning ones, and in my own calibration test, five gallons per side indicated about 6 gallons in the left and 7 on the right. Yep, it's amazing 1930s technology! You know what you have plus or minus 1 to 10 gallons! Works great for my mission, may not for yours! Fun stuff, I love old school. If you decide to go old school  (like I did), message me if you want a freshly rebuilt not-so-accurate sender! Enjoy your Mooney...

[carusoam]

Seeing if our Cies guy is around... @fuellevel  ^^^^ 

Any insight regarding Cies and the latest software for JPIs?

Sounds like everyone is on the same page...just want to get a heads up if something doesn’t look right...

Best regards,

-a-

[fuellevel]

Yes JPI converted the system over to be an installer software change so that the resistive or frequency can be handled by the installer rather than changing the configuration in the factory.   So all new JPI 900 and 930 are compatible with the CiES Senders.      Older units would still need to be returned to JPI to be converted but that cost has come down dramatically. Equally we still can supply analog output units so that the JPI can remain in place.   If you have a JPI or want to get a JPI 9XX system - we have you covered 

Basically we solve a lot of issues with installs so JPI makes it easier to use CiES senders 

[gsxrpilot]

The EDM-900 and CiES senders were the very first upgrade I made to my 252 and after many other upgrades since including Aspens, Avidyne's, ADSB, etc. it's still the best/valuable upgrade I've made. 

I doubt I'd fly a Mooney without them.

[hypertech]

On 7/12/2019 at 1:40 PM, fuellevel said:

Yes JPI converted the system over to be an installer software change so that the resistive or frequency can be handled by the installer rather than changing the configuration in the factory.   So all new JPI 900 and 930 are compatible with the CiES Senders.      Older units would still need to be returned to JPI to be converted but that cost has come down dramatically. Equally we still can supply analog output units so that the JPI can remain in place.   If you have a JPI or want to get a JPI 9XX system - we have you covered 

Basically we solve a lot of issues with installs so JPI makes it easier to use CiES senders 

Does anyone know when or what serial number this change happened?

My 900 was installed summer of 2018. The plane is in for more upgrades and we want to add the Cies senders but JPI is currently closed.  So, if my 900 would need to go back, it’s a no go right now. 

[kortopates]

16 minutes ago, hypertech said:

Does anyone know when or what serial number this change happened?

My 900 was installed summer of 2018. The plane is in for more upgrades and we want to add the Cies senders but JPI is currently closed.  So, if my 900 would need to go back, it’s a no go right now. 

Should be easy to find out by going into Setup per the JPI Installation manual and see if you have the option to select frequency mode for Fuel senders etc.

[hypertech]

21 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Should be easy to find out by going into Setup per the JPI Installation manual and see if you have the option to select frequency mode for Fuel senders etc.

Pretty sure I do have that, but I wasn't sure if that was a clear indicator.  My JPI has newer software - we have done a field upgrade to add fuel pressure.  At one point it also needed a hardware upgrade.  If you see frequency mode as a choice, does that mean that you do indeed have the hardware to support it to?

[carusoam]

If you can choose... you have the option...

If there is no indication of any choice... you have the old software version...

Before this, every JPI had the option, but it required being sent back to JPI to make it happen...

PP thoughts only, not a hardware guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[Chuckydb]

Does anyone have a pullout transmitter that would work in 1969 statesman? Right tank sender works perfectly when pulled out and grounded but when installed shows full always. Seems like something internally is opening circuit when installed. 

[carusoam]

The fuel floats/senders/transmitters are resistors connected to a float...

The whole thing is submerged in 100LL...

Not sure what would make it go wrong just by mounting it in the tank... could be the stress caused by torquing the bolts against the new seal... (?)

 

For pre-flown parts dial 1, 2, or three.... have your part number handy... 

1) @Alan Fox

2) @Jerry Pressley

3) @SheryLoewen

There is also a resource for getting the old floats OH’d...

There are also some pretty nifty digital upgrades for a few dollars more...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-