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Upgrade S-Tec 30 to 3100, or GFC500, with G3X?


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Plan is to go glass panel (G3X). Have an S-Tec System 30, two axis, no manual trim. Servos are in great shape (just overhauled). Being quoted about $12K for the 3100 with electric trim, plus about 50 hours install labor (reusing the existing System 30 servos). Don't know what the GFC500 will run, but I expect "more."

Any key functionality I'd be missing out on, if I went with the 3100 upgrade vs. ripping all the old out and putting in the GFC500, assuming it's ever STC'd for the M20F?

My "must haves" are:

  • Radio (ILS, VOR/LOC) and GPS-based (LPV, etc) approaches
  • Altitude pre-select, from a bug on the PFD
  • IAS and VSI climb
  • Tracking the heading bug
  • GPSS

A flight director would be cool, but not necessarily essential. (Or is it? IDK. The Cirrus didn't have one until recently (upgraded the S-Tec 55X to a DFC90 and the PFD to the Entegra R8.2) and I still have to remember to pay attention to it; no other plane I've flown IFR has had an FD.)

Edited by chrixxer
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If your heart is set on the G3X then I think you have to go GFC500. And then you'll need to go everything else Garmin as well. That includes everything from. the GPS to transponder to audio panel to engine monitor. Other brands will integrate, but each at some feature penalty. To get all the features out of the G3X, you'll need a 100% Garmin panel.

On the other hand, if I were you, and had an STEC30, I'd definitely upgrade to the STEC 3100. Then I'd work out the rest later. I'd either go the Garmin TXi route or more likely a couple of Aspens. That way I can keep my PS Engineering audio panel, my Avidyne GPS and transponder, JPI engine monitor, etc...

There are pros/cons both ways. Some like the single vendor everything talks to everything guaranteed approach, I like the pick and choose, best of breed approach.

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Yeah, I'm already half-Garmin, and like the integration. My hodge-podge (FreeFlight ADS-B half the time doesn't talk to the GNS; S-TEC works great but only takes direction from the nav sources; audio panel is awesome but won't support voice commands once I put in the GTN; JPI is great but I'd love to have the info as a panel in front of me) is "good enough," but could be so much nicer. I'd go Aspen if I wasn't going full glass, but that's still a hodge-podge.

I've logged some hours behind a G3X and love the integration... 

Current plan is to ditch the JPI for the integrated EMI, ditch the KX-155 (with the failing display) entirely, use the GNS430W/GI-106 as NAVCOM2, rip out the GPS496, nuke the 1960s engine instruments, probably swap the GMA350 in for the PMA450, ditch the FreeFlight 978 system and GTX-327 for a GTX345 (maybe the remote version) ... The autopilot is the only real questionmark. I'm not made of money, and if the S-Tec 3100 provides roughly comparable functionality for significantly less investment, it's worth considering.

However, I got this from S-Tec:

What I found leads me to believe that it will interface in the same manner as the G5 instead of the TXi:

Non-Garmin Autopilot

Non-Garmin autopilot systems interfacing to the G3X system will only receive Course (CRS) and heading (HDG) output functions from the G3X.

The G3X system does not support nav source selection for non-Garmin autopilots. Therefore, when a non-Garmin autopilot is interfaced to the G3X system, only one external navigator (GPS and/or VHF) can be connected to G3X. A second external navigator, if installed, must retain its own dedicated CDI display.

The G3X system does not support mode annunciation for Non-Garmin Autopilots. Alternative means to provide annunciation of the autopilot modes is beyond the scope of the G3X STC.

If this is correct that it will act in the same manner as the G5 then you will not have flight director capabilities and would need a source of baro-corrected alt signal to us the altitude pre-select functions.

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By the time you sell off the stec system the cost delta between the two systems will be zero. If you are dead set on the g3x And having things integrated the GFC500 is the best way to go. To save money I’d put the 430w as your main navigator, replace the 155 with a sl40/225, and consider using a gdl50r along with a cheap used adsb out or beacon. 

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It's not super easy selling an STEC. They enforce their STC and require that any used system go back to the factory for an overhaul and refresh before issuing an STC for the new airplane. As I recall, this service cost a few AMU's.

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I don’t see why you can’t have a non Garmin audio and transponder. The only functionality you lose is the ability to control the boxes from the G3X, not a big deal.
The G3X requires a Garmin GPS I’m sure, and you need a G5 as backup, and of course the GFC 500.


Non-Garmin audio panels don’t get you voice control of the GTN.


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By the time you sell off the stec system the cost delta between the two systems will be zero. If you are dead set on the g3x And having things integrated the GFC500 is the best way to go. To save money I’d put the 430w as your main navigator, replace the 155 with a sl40/225, and consider using a gdl50r along with a cheap used adsb out or beacon. 


The 430 isn’t going to be supported for much longer. I’m fine leaving it as COM2. The SL40 doesn’t have a NAV radio, the SL30s are all 10+ years old and still selling for $2500+, and the GNC255 is awesome, but for the $4K or so plus install, I’ll just keep the 430 and add the 650. I already have the FreeFlight, I need 1090 for international flight, and a beacon ADS-B doesn’t get me that...

I’m good with my panel plans generally, just wondering if the GFC500 makes sense given the existing upgradable S-TEC system...
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It's not super easy selling an STEC. They enforce their STC and require that any used system go back to the factory for an overhaul and refresh before issuing an STC for the new airplane. As I recall, this service cost a few AMU's.

Yeah, I might get a few bucks for the PMA450 and the 496, but those are rounding errors, and I’m not factoring any income from existing hardware into my planning.



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I'm a current STEC30 owner but am leaning towards G3X plus GFC500. I am very much looking forward to fiddling with G3X, Aspen Max and Dynon Skyview at OSH to finally choose my PFD upgrade path, and then autopilot will follow.

The new STEC isn't very compelling at the current price, especially while using old servos. It will likely only fully integrate with an Aspen, so it is still under consideration by me but lagging the other choices as I see them today. It should be a $5k upgrade today for what it is IMO. You get more and better in the GFC500 starting at $7k with all new (and better) hardware, at least in the servos.

I expect all of these high dollar labor quotes we're seeing right now will get much better after the ADS-B rush concludes and the shops get hungry again. No way would I try to get a new A/P scheduled right now.

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10 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

I expect all of these high dollar labor quotes we're seeing right now will get much better after the ADS-B rush concludes and the shops get hungry again. No way would I try to get a new A/P scheduled right now.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, that was one of my considerations buying 3RM - it may not be the avionics stack I ultimately want, but what it had was serviceable (GNS430W, S-Tec 30 w/ GPSS, FDL-978-XVR) and/or easily upgraded for the "right now" stuff (swapping the GMA340 for a PMA450 was an Allen key and a logbook entry; swapping the FS-450/EDM-700 for an EDM-830 was relatively painless).

Didn't want to have to see an avionics shop until after 2020, and wanted to be at least US-compliant immediately.

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I've been flying behind my 530W/430W/STEC30 & GPSS for 12 years as well...even without an HSI! The horror! I swapped GMA340 for PMA450A and replaced a dead KT76 with a 330ES many years ago too. I'm in no hurry...was waiting for that second wave of products and prices to drop and we're petty much there now.

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3 hours ago, chrixxer said:

 


The 430 isn’t going to be supported for much longer. I’m fine leaving it as COM2. The SL40 doesn’t have a NAV radio, the SL30s are all 10+ years old and still selling for $2500+, and the GNC255 is awesome, but for the $4K or so plus install, I’ll just keep the 430 and add the 650. I already have the FreeFlight, I need 1090 for international flight, and a beacon ADS-B doesn’t get me that...

I’m good with my panel plans generally, just wondering if the GFC500 makes sense given the existing upgradable S-TEC system...

 

After some birthing issues (I'm working with Garmin right now to correct my issue), the GFC 500 is one heck of an autopilot, especially it you have other Garmin products.  I have 20 hours with it now.  When you preselect 15,000 feet it levels of at 15,000 +/- 0 even though they say +/- 10 feet.  While I liked the ESI 500, the G5 is excellent.  Somehow Garmin has managed to display the altitude tape in a way that makes it look like a mechanical drum meter.  Effective.  Once you figure it out, one of the really nice features is the VNAV feature that lets the GFC 500 do multiple step downs automatically with intervention by the pilot to add power only if the next step down occurs more than 5 minutes from the last one.  I've tested ESP and it works as advertised, as does LVL mode.  The GSA 28 brushless servos are supposed to require less maintenance and are so light that even with 4 of them, I picked up useful load.  With a new autopilot do you really want  to use 'Old" servos?  With the same features and no VNAV the S-Tec 3100 starts at 25,000 for parts alone.  All the parts for the GFC 500, including G5 and Yaw Damper runs in the neighborhood of 17,000.

Also, with Garmin's history, support for the GFC 500 is likely to extend far into the future.  I don't know about you all, but the GFC 500 was a no brainer for me.

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25 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

I expect all of these high dollar labor quotes we're seeing right now will get much better after the ADS-B rush concludes and the shops get hungry again.
 

I certainly wouldn't count on that.  After seeing what was involved in my installation, I figure I got a good deal on mine.  And shops are saying its not the ADS-B installs that are stretching lead times, but full panel upgrades.  That's likely to get worse, not better.

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