Let's talk oil... But not in the traditional sense

[Guitarmaster]

I know this subject has been covered adnausium but, a recent discussion got me thinking (a dangerous notion for sure.)
 
Since our engines are flat-tappet engines, would it not make sense to run a ZDDP oil? For instance, Rotella T4 15w40.
 
It seems to be an accepted reality that our engines will suffer cam and/or lifter failure at some point, usually prior to TBO. Why do we simply accept this from a 30k engine? Our engines are basically like an old muscle car engine. They will eat cams and lifters without ZDDP blended oil and that's why the roller tappet was invented.
 
Exhaust valve temp is a concern (contaminates sticking to the stem), but from my research, as long as the cylinder temp stays less than 410 (and that's conservative), that's not a concern.
 
The guy that turned me on to this ran Rotella in his 520 powered Bonanza for the last 1000 hours before the overhaul at 2200 hours. Never produced metal and was never topped. The overhaul was on time; not condition. When it was torn down, all tolerances were in spec.
 
Please don't say, 'only use Aviation oil.' That's not what this discussion is about.
 
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[N201MKTurbo]

Our oils are ashless oils. This means that they leave no residue when burned.

ZDDP is ash forming. It leaves a residue when burned. Although it would probably benefit our cams and lifters, it would likely cause stuck valves.

Choose your poison. The powers that be have decided the benefits don’t outweigh the risks.   

[PTK]

I think this has been addressed. Aeroshell 15W50 contains TCP and/or TPP anti-wear and anti scuffing additives as does Lycoming's LW16702 oil additive. Anti-wear additives are effective at relatively low temperatures and anti-scuff additives at relatively high temperatures and remain on loaded surfaces until they are rubbed off or melt. 

[Guitarmaster]

Aeroshell 15W50 contains TCP and/or TPP anti wear additives as does Lycoming's LW16702 oil additive. 

Conti starter adapters don't play nice with Aeroshell 15W50

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[PTK]

14 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

Conti starter adapters don't play nice with Aeroshell 15W50

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My Lycoming loves 15W50. 

I have heard about Continental starter adapters. Is it an absolute with most or all or is it random? 

[carusoam]

Continental challenges are typically late in life for the adapter... so said the guy that rebuilds them at KOSH...

So If it is late, and the wear is in place already, changing the oil additive may make the slipping show up.

I haven’t worn out a starter adapter yet... but for some reason I wanted to be prepared... 

Best regards,

-a-

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Our oils are ashless oils. This means that they leave no residue when burned.

ZDDP is ash forming. It leaves a residue when burned. Although it would probably benefit our cams and lifters, it would likely cause stuck valves.

Choose your poison. The powers that be have decided the benefits don’t outweigh the risks.   

Also, ZDPP may leave metallic combustion chamber deposits which could trigger preignition. Just another thought 

[MB65E]

Some of the diesel oils are not as regulated as the car oils. I’ve run diesel oils in gas cars for that reason. I like the thread and agree with you. But it’s a tough nut to crack with certified engines. At least now you have two engines to play with. What a great test bed! Run one with and one stock! :-) 

A lot of old Porsche engines are running on non synthetic 20W50 oils with their flat tappets. Most non street race oils have higher ZDDP. 

-Matt

 

[wcb]

14 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

Please don't say, 'only use Aviation oil.' That's not what this discussion is about.
 
 

 

The biggest issue for using something other than aviation approved oil has nothing to do with oil engine life.  What happens if you have to put the plane in the field or worse (even not oil related).  What is the liability you and your family are incurring?  Personal liability and would the insurance company walk away saying willful neglect?

[201Steve]

On 6/24/2019 at 9:01 AM, wcb said:

The biggest issue for using something other than aviation approved oil has nothing to do with oil engine life.  What happens if you have to put the plane in the field or worse (even not oil related).  What is the liability you and your family are incurring?  Personal liability and would the insurance company walk away saying willful neglect?

Andddd he couldn’t help himself.

 

NTSB veteran walks to the scene.... sniffs the air around him. “Brian!” He proclaimed to his assistant. “Do you smell that?” Brian replied promptly, “of course I smell it sir... it’s Rotella!” “I’ve seen this trick a thousand times. Get this sample out to the lab at once, nobody gets away with the Rotella swap on my watch. Case closed!”

[David Lloyd]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:10 PM, Guitarmaster said:

  

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I used 15w50 in my Bonanza all the time I had it.  I0-520 1950 hours, the next 2350, both replaced because they were getting old and I did not know better.  I0-550 1550 hours, the next 1250 when sold.  Never, not once had a starter adapter problem.  Never slipped even once.  I know people blame the oil but maybe something else is going on.  As an example, the engine that only went 1550 hours was a Conti reman.  Valve guides would wear, cylinders replaced. Replaced 6 over a few years one or two at a time.  Two needed repair when I gave up and bought an engine with Superior cylinders.  Never touched a cylinder on the other engines.  Was that a manufacturing problem or should I blame the oil?