M20E @ 13,000 info

[Bob_Belville]

Since I'm planning to fly back to MA after AirVenture by way of MT, NV, UT, WY, CO, etc. I thought I ought to see how well my old E would climb above 11,000' which is normally as high as I have reason to go traveling East of the Rockies.

Maybe this info is useful to others.

I took off from MRN (1270') mid day. OAT was 28C (82F) on the ground and 8C (56F) at 13k GPS alt. (You'l recall that standard temp at sea level is 15C with a 2C per 1000' lapse rate which would equate to about 13C at field elev and -9C at 13k so today in NC was well above std.)

I climbed at full throttle, 2600 RPM. Just me and 1/2 fuel on board, about 550# below gross.

From 9000' to 12,000' it took just under 6 minutes for an average of 500 fpm. (From 12k to 13k took 1:45 = 571 fpm.)

At 13k and 2600 rpm I was pulling 19.1" MAP and EDM calculated that is 60% HP.

I pulled blue knob to 2350 rpm and red knob to 8.0 gph which was 55%. In hindsight I could have reduced FF further without losing power. Or I could have stayed at 2600 rpm and 60% power. 

[RogueOne]

Did you instal oxygen in your plane or just a portable bottle?

[N201MKTurbo]

I used to take my old M20F to 16000 quite a few times. I did an IFR flight over the Rockies once with 16000 MEAs. It does surprisingly well. 

[Bob_Belville]

Did you instal oxygen in your plane or just a portable bottle?

I have a SkyOx tank hanging on the back of the seat. 2 port.

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[Guest]

Years ago a good friend of mine took his normally aspirated 180HP RV6 to 26,000’

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/high.html

Clarence

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

Years ago a good friend of mine took his normally aspirated 180HP RV6 to 26,000’

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/high.html

Clarence

Did he just climb till he ran out of gas and then coast down? That last few thousand had to be really slow.

[carusoam]

According to the linked article... 100fpm at the end compared to 2500fpm at the beginning...

Fuel injected 180hp engine... and any excess weight removed for the flight...

It is a short, and interesting read. 

Best regards,

-a-

[NJMac]

 

 

 

Since I'm planning to fly back to MA after AirVenture by way of MT, NV, UT, WY, CO, etc. I thought I ought to see how well my old E would climb above 11,000' which is normally as high as I have reason to go traveling East of the Rockies.

Maybe this info is useful to others.

I took off from MRN (1270') mid day. OAT was 28C (82F) on the ground and 8C (56F) at 13k GPS alt. (You'l recall that standard temp at sea level is 15C with a 2C per 1000' lapse rate which would equate to about 13C at field elev and -9C at 13k so today in NC was well above std.)

I climbed at full throttle, 2600 RPM. Just me and 1/2 fuel on board, about 550# below gross.

From 9000' to 12,000' it took just under 6 minutes for an average of 500 fpm. (From 12k to 13k took 1:45 = 571 fpm.)

At 13k and 2600 rpm I was pulling 19.1" MAP and EDM calculated that is 60% HP.

I pulled blue knob to 2350 rpm and red knob to 8.0 gph which was 55%. In hindsight I could have reduced FF further without losing power. Or I could have stayed at 2600 rpm and 60% power. 

 

Thanks for sharing this. Wife and I have a week booked in Sedona in Oct. Was curious about MEAs and my E. Should be interesting for this flatlander out there.

 

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[Bob_Belville]

2 minutes ago, NJMac said:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this. Wife and I have a week booked in Sedona in Oct. Was curious about MEAs and my E. Should be interesting for this flatlander out there.

 

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Yeah, I'm another Easterner. On @kpaul's recommendation I plan a circuit over Yellowstone NP landmarks. That will need to be at about 12,000 to stay above the minimum 2000 AGL. I do have a lot of experience flying on the lee side of our highest in the East Appalachian Mountains where vertical drafts can exceed a Mooney's ability to climb. I'll be watching the winds carefully.  

[flight2000]

I had about the same performance as Bob started this thread with in my 67E.

I spent about 16 months flying in and around Reno (4,415' field elevation) and had no problems.  If flying IFR, ask for a block altitude and ride the up and down drafts.  I found the airspeed swings a little to concerning sometimes between Salt Lake City and Reno to try and maintain assigned altitudes.  ATC generally didn't have any issues giving me a 2,000' block with me sandwiched in the middle. 

I've found the Appalachian chain to be more foothills than true mountains after flying out west for just over two years....  I mean come on, Mt Mitchell in NC is only 6,685' and that's the tallest point east of the Mississippi......Donner Pass on I-80 crosses at 7,000 feet, in a car....   Having said that, the wave action and weather can be just as treacherous in eaither place if you're not watching out for it.

Best time to fly is generally in the morning before 1100.  I stayed on the ground if wind speeds got above 30 knots across the ridge lines.  Also, don't forget to adjust the mixture before take off at the higher elevations.  I generally pulled the red knob out about 1 knuckle's worth on my index finger when taking off from Reno.  If density Altitude is really high, pull it out a smidge further and listen to the engine, it'll tell you if you're too rich or too lean.  Each engine will be different, so that is just general guidance. 

Going to Sedona is a fairly easy trip with great scenery.  The route I used along the northern parts of the Rockies followed V6 for the most part.  Didn't have to go above 12,000 except to cross into Salt Lake City near Ogden, UT.  You could fly west comfortably at 8,000' from there following I-80 or lower in some places.   Mostly open desert out that way with few trees.  

Couple of posts I did going both directions:

 

Cheers,

Brian

[gsxrpilot]

I used to fly my M20C at 12,500 and 13,500 all the time. If the wind was in my favor I could get some decent speed at ridiculously low fuel flow numbers. I flew from Austin to Chattanooga once and landed with enough fuel to have made it all the way to Virginia Beach. I enjoyed flying at those altitudes so much, and didn't mind the O2, that I knew I'd like a turbo that would allow me to fly even higher on a regular basis.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, flight2000 said:

I've found the Appalachian chain to be more foothills than true mountains after flying out west for just over two years....  I mean come on, Mt Mitchell in NC is only 6,685' and that's the tallest point east of the Mississippi......Donner Pass on I-80 crosses at 7,000 feet, in a car....   Having said that, the wave action and weather can be just as treacherous in eaither place if you're not watching out for it.Cheers,

Brian

Hi Brian, well... yes and no. the mountains (hills?) just west of my home drome (KMRN) have numerous peaks over 6500'. Airports just to the east are about 1000 msl  - MRN is 1270. Climbing or descending in/out of MRN from/to Grandfather Mt. and his siblings involves getting up or down about 8000' in about 25 nm since it is likely to be IFR and min crossing alt is about 9000'.

"Foothills" might imply higher peaks, "real mountains", nearby. That's not the case with the Appalachians so winds are affected in a manner similar to the high peaks out west. (The highest recorded wind speed, except for a recent cyclone in Australia, was on a mountain in the Appalachians, Mt. Washington NH, whose peak is only 6288'. 231 mph was the record in a winter storm many years ago but 100+ mph are pretty common.)   

By contrast out west I plan to land: CUT 5600', BZN 4500', IDA 4800', LWL 5800', BTF 4300'', LAR 7300', BJC'.

Since I will be visiting all those fields VFR and will not need to go to more than ~12,000' the climbs will not be greater than the 8000' climb I have to do to cross our little hills. Turbulence and vertical drafts might be similar, very wind dependent. 

Now, engine performance will be more of a challenge in the west which is why I wanted to see how much climb I had left above 12,000. I certainly will heed the advice to fly early in the day and to stay grounded when winds across the ridges are too high. Fortunately, neither I nor Ben have to get home on any schedule and there's a lot of exploring we can do if we're grounded for a day or two.   

[gsxrpilot]

@Bob_Belville I might be able to supply a hangar for you at BJC. My plane will likely be in annual.

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Bob_Belville I might be able to supply a hangar for you at BJC. My plane will likely be in annual.

That sounds great, you're going in right after KOSH? It will be August by the time we get to Denver.

[gsxrpilot]

56 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

That sounds great, you're going in right after KOSH? It will be August by the time we get to Denver.

My annual is due in August. So at some point during the month it will go back to SWTA in Texas for that work. While it's there it will get an Aspen MFD and both upgraded to MAX.

[bill98]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

My annual is due in August. So at some point during the month it will go back to SWTA in Texas for that work. While it's there it will get an Aspen MFD and both upgraded to MAX.

Lemme know if you need a ride back to Denver