MrRodgers Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Hi everyone. I am considering installing an AOA indicator in my plane. I have seen some videos of glare shield mounted versions the pilot can flip/raise up or down when needed. I have also see panel mounted versions. I am looking for our groups thoughts and experience with AOA's and any pireps would be appreciated. What brands do you all prefer and why? Glare shield Mount or Panel Mount? Have you been saved from a potential stall/spin occurrence? Is it a distraction in the cockpit? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I like the AoA software-driven one added to my Aspen PFD. Accurate, unobtrusive, easy to see at a glance, and no holes or things hanging off the airplane. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 There are many that MSers use... from small company/low investment to big company high investment... And one I know that is completely mechanical.... I saw one MSer that liked to use his AOAi to demonstrate how smoothly he could land his M20J on the centerline, then smoothly lower the nose... Then one day I saw the same MSer do the same thing in a different plane, a Long Body, from the right seat... no AOAi... The nice part about the AOAi... it is a constant display of how much excess lift you have under various conditions... If you have excess memory, and can do math, and your instrument scan rate is really good.... the AOAi may not help all that much. If your memory is average, math is challenged, instrument scan gets stalled while multi-tasking... the AOAi will be a big help. I invite @201er for some good experience in discussing AOAi and Mooneys... If using an AOAi in icing conditions... there are some heated ones... but know what happens to the AOA calibration when carrying a load of ice... as the wing shape changes... stay conservative.... There seems to be a lot written on the topic... https://mooneyspace.com/search/?q=AOAi I have seen discussions about... Garmin BK Aspen (easy add on, but expensive to get started, aspen required) CYA (visited MS often during the development, many installed in MSer planes) Alpha systems (I saw one used in a Long Body) this site gives some good pics of the various displays and bits and pieces... https://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/angleofattackindicators.html?perpage=all&pageno=1 Put it where it isn’t out of the way while using it. Up on the glare shield, up by the compass, up by where your eyes are going to be... unless you have really good instrument scanning skills and multi-tasking skills of a typical IR pilot... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRodgers Posted June 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Put it where it isn’t out of the way while using it. Up on the glare shield, up by the compass, up by where your eyes are going to be... unless you have really good instrument scanning skills and multi-tasking skills of a typical IR pilot... Best regards, -a-Thanks so much for such a detailed response. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Stallings Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Love my AOA!!! Some of my Pilot friends call it a crutch, but I’m Okay with most things that tell a very important story with just a glance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cody Stallings said: Love my AOA!!! Some of my Pilot friends call it a crutch, but I’m Okay with most things that tell a very important story with just a glance. Which one is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Stallings Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Skates97 said: Which one is that? It’s the Alpha, It’s great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaster Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Love my AOA!!! Some of my Pilot friends call it a crutch, but I’m Okay with most things that tell a very important story with just a glance. Those same pilots are probably used to flying airspeed from the B-17 days. I'm sure a moving map and autopilot were both considered crutches at one time. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 A few words of caution about this topic.... 1) AOAi(s) Use them or not... there is plenty of logic to support both sides. 2) pro or con, try not to run over the MSer supporting the other side. 3) used properly, including the act of calibrating, it can be beneficial to your flying... 4) used improperly, like anything else, it can be hazardous to your health... 5) keep the focus on the topic. 6) try to not accidently throw barbs at the MSers on the other side of the coin... 7) It’s an interesting topic, that is a challenge to write about, and fully understand the various viewpoints... 8) Not everybody is a skilled writer, but everyone has some good information to share. Even if it is only the opinion of a PP, not Kermit Weeks... 9) I reviewed some of the previous discussions... they are complex, and typing on a computer to get some points across can sometimes fail... 10) Stay open minded... we might all learn something... WWAMD Some discussions on this topic seem to have accidentally spiraled into oblivion... So wait just a sec while I mount this here AOAi to the frame of my iPad.... OK, i’m Ready now... Let’s get the discussion going! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) I wouldn’t buy a Garmin AOA again. It uses the experimental AHARS which is fine, but it leaves the static line open to the inside of the plane. It can’t be plumbed I to the static system. When I had a door pop open on takeoff, it changed pressure inside the plane. The AOA indicated an imminent stall. The indication was incorrect during a critical phase of flight. Edit: I brought the problem to Garmin’s attention. It wasn’t met with any overt indication of concern. Edited June 6, 2019 by smccray 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PT20J Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I have the Aspen AOA on my PFD installed by the previous owner. A good over-the-fence speed when light in my J model is about 65 KIAS. This puts the AOA indication clear into the yellow/black crosshatch area (critical). If I keep the AOA in the green, I’ll touch down in the next county. I’m curious if others using the Aspen AOA have the same indication, or if I should recalibrate it. As many probably know, the Aspen design uses a patented software algorithm to derive AOA from existing sensors rather than requiring a dedicated AOA sensor. Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRodgers Posted June 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Love my AOA!!! Some of my Pilot friends call it a crutch, but I’m Okay with most things that tell a very important story with just a glance. What make and model is that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I’m obviously no expert, have much to learn about best use of the fancy panel which beckons my eyes downward,, but I find my Aspen AoA to be most useful as reassurance in turns, especially to base and final,. Over the fence, I’m looking at the runway, not at the Aspen. Rolling out on final, flaps where I want them, final GUMPS check,, airspeed right, heels on the floor,, hand on throttle, heads UP., eyes outside! No coyotes, buzzards or competing aircraft in my way. I honestly can’t say what the pretty little ribbon looks like at that point. I’ll try to remember to look next time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 3 hours ago, PT20J said: I have the Aspen AOA on my PFD installed by the previous owner. A good over-the-fence speed when light in my J model is about 65 KIAS. This puts the AOA indication clear into the yellow/black crosshatch area (critical). If I keep the AOA in the green, I’ll touch down in the next county. I’m curious if others using the Aspen AOA have the same indication, or if I should recalibrate it. As many probably know, the Aspen design uses a patented software algorithm to derive AOA from existing sensors rather than requiring a dedicated AOA sensor. Skip This may be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I love my Alpha Systems Eagle with the display set as far forward as possible on my glareshield. Easy to see while flying with eyes forward, audio alerts are great, etc. I would install exactly this system again on another airplane.Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 You must also consider the measurement method of the AOA system, not just internal display that you like. Some have mentioned the Aspen integrated AOA that is software based. If done properly, they can work. I think they need to be told of configuration changes, however, like dropping flaps. Some external sensor types are just glorified pitot tubes and are essentially just measuring airspeed and inferring the AOA. In my opinion, it is essential to have an actual moving vane type sensor so you are getting true AOA measurement (ex: CYA 100). -dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dan at S43 said: Some have mentioned the Aspen integrated AOA that is software based. If done properly, they can work. They like all AOA's need to be set up and configured. The procedure is simple. 7 minutes ago, Dan at S43 said: I think they need to be told of configuration changes, however, like dropping flaps That is all taken care of in the configuration for you. The Aspen has the advantage of knowing about flap configuration vs. other mechanical ones that are calibrated in one configuration only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I've been wondering how people deal with them and flaps. I don't always land with full flaps. Sometimes I land with take off flaps. And I've heard rumors that some people even land without flaps. It seems like this should affect the AOA indication. Are there any that adjust for flaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Txbyker Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 4 hours ago, hypertech said: I've been wondering how people deal with them and flaps. I don't always land with full flaps. Sometimes I land with take off flaps. And I've heard rumors that some people even land without flaps. It seems like this should affect the AOA indication. Are there any that adjust for flaps? I put an Alpha AOA in a G1000 M20R and you are correct, there are different settings for full versus half flap. Alpha sells a full flap module that you wire to a microswitch that indicates full flap. I could not wire the module to a G1000 and the Mooney flap switch has no wire post to attach to. Net result is that I sent the full flap module back for a refund and the AOA was set to show blue donut for half flap, and upper blue arc for full flap. If anyone is thinking of Alpha and the full flap module you should investigate how it works. Russ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 1) Calibration is everything... If you can only calibrate one configuration, pick the most critical one for you... Landing configuration... 2) The Alpha system seems to be the best thought out and executed... use this one for comparison to the one you want... 3) Scott’s experience on the Garmin experimental version leaves a lot to be desired... not attached to the ship’s static system... 4) The CYA100 is probably the lowest cost, and actually works as expected... 5) The Aspen version... Great if you have an Aspen... Hmmm.... I can get an Aspen Max, because it can have an AOAi, this would make me a safer pilot.... Twisted PP logic at best.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austintatious Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I cannot speak to installations in light aircraft... However, two jets I flew had heads up AOA indicators and I absolutely loved them. Simply put they allow you to maintain speed while looking outside the cockpit. No more going back and forth from the outside environment to the instrument panel. One of these aircraft was a GIV.... however the GV and GVI did away with it. With the actual HUD down in those models, there isn't a direct replacement, but there are other indications that will let you know if you are fast or slow. I still miss the little version on the GIV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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