Jump to content

New to the site!


Recommended Posts

Howdy!

New Mooney owner here and wanted to introduce myself!

Homebase is KUDD (Bermuda Dunes)

1979 Mooney Rocket 305  

This forum has been very useful in figuring out many things Mooney related and I couldn’t be happier with my baby

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard Captain Bash.

Congrats on making that first post!

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks!

 

Going to have some questions in my process of learning this aircraft and engine.

Still learning how to hot-start it without flooding it and came across this piece right from Continental. 

https://www.sky-vu.org/2017/08/03/hot-starts-continentals-recommended-procedure/

So as I’ve read, there is only one fuel pump on the plane used for all three purposes: Prime, Low Boost and High Boost for emergencies only. The difference is where the fuel is injected. 

Anyone have input on the matter? 

As there is no official checklist for the Rocket, I have been using the one located on freechecklists.com and the hot start procedure seems to be against this publication from Continental.

Im also looking for some info on oxygen resolutions for my built in system. I’ll take pictures later and see what info you have for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Captain Bash said:

Still learning how to hot-start it without flooding it.

You will get a lot of different suggestions. Here's what works for me for Continentals

1) A normal cold start. Throttle and mixture full, boost pump to maximum pressure reading (3-7 seconds depending on outside air temperature), throttle back to open just a bit and crank. Cold it starts in 2-4 bladders, hot 6-10. I put this first since it doesn't require any deviation from a normal cold start, just a few more blades of rotation.

2) Throttle and mixture full, boost pump to maximum pressure reading (3-7 seconds depending on outside air temperature), throttle back to open just a bit, mixture idle cut off and crank. It starts in 2-5 blades. Slowly add mixture once it starts.. This works really well and isn't too much of a deviation from a cold start.

3) Throttle full, mixture idle cutoff. Run the boost pump for 60 seconds BY THE CLOCK. Mixture full for one second or less to see any pressure. Throttle back to open just a bit with mixture full rich and crank. It starts after 3-8 blades. This is the official Continental hot start procedure. I don't use it as I don't like sitting in the 100ºF heat sweating while I wait the full minute.

All of them work for me but I use the first one most often since it is the same as the cold start. If it doesn't start easily, I go to the second procedure. I rarely use the third procedure.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

You will get a lot of different suggestions. Here's what works for me for Continentals

1) A normal cold start. Throttle and mixture full, boost pump to maximum pressure reading (3-7 seconds depending on outside air temperature), throttle back to open just a bit and crank. Cold it starts in 2-4 bladders, hot 6-10. I put this first since it doesn't require any deviation from a normal cold start, just a few more blades of rotation.

2) Throttle and mixture full, boost pump to maximum pressure reading (3-7 seconds depending on outside air temperature), throttle back to open just a bit, mixture idle cut off and crank. It starts in 2-5 blades. Slowly add mixture once it starts.. This works really well and isn't too much of a deviation from a cold start.

3) Throttle full, mixture idle cutoff. Run the boost pump for 60 seconds BY THE CLOCK. Mixture full for one second or less to see any pressure. Throttle back to open just a bit with mixture full rich and crank. It starts after 3-8 blades. This is the official Continental hot start procedure. I don't use it as I don't like sitting in the 100ºF heat sweating while I wait the full minute.

All of them work for me but I use the first one most often since it is the same as the cold start. If it doesn't start easily, I go to the second procedure. I rarely use the third procedure.

According to that link I provided above, which is an excerpt from Continetals publication of how to care for your engine, it states throttle full, mixture cutoff and boost pump on high for 20 seconds.

Which brings me to an underlying question...actually 2.

 

1) low boost pump or prime switch for a cold start?

2) high boost pump (supposedly for emergencies only) or low boost pump to clear the vapor from the fuel lines?

 

The plane has a Shadin Miniflo-L to monitor my fuel feed.

 

Because I am based in Palm Springs, hot starts are going to be more common for me.

Edited by Captain Bash
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got the baby Continental engine, but same as what @KLRDMD said is what I do.

I don't ever use either the low or high boost pumps for anything other than restarting in flight, but that's another story. Starting on the ground I only ever use the prime switch. And I've never run it for 20 seconds. For cold starts I prime just until I hear a change in the tone, about 4 to 6 seconds. For hot starts 2 or 3 seconds is all it needs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've got the baby Continental engine, but same as what @KLRDMD said is what I do.

I don't ever use either the low or high boost pumps for anything other than restarting in flight, but that's another story. Starting on the ground I only ever use the prime switch. And I've never run it for 20 seconds. For cold starts I prime just until I hear a change in the tone, about 4 to 6 seconds. For hot starts 2 or 3 seconds is all it needs.

I’d still recommend giving this a read, it also has the link to the full document from continental.

https://www.sky-vu.org/2017/08/03/hot-starts-continentals-recommended-procedure/

 

maybe its it’s because I have the TSIO-520, but my symptoms are exactly as described in that article. Try a start with full rich, 1/4 throttle and no prime and it comes to life and within a few seconds dies again.  Supposedly, this is from fuel vapor in the lines. In order to purge this paper, it recommends mixture cut off, throttle full and 20 seconds of the boost pump. This is done to purge any fuel vapor that may be still in the lines caused by the warm engine. I’ll give it a shot at some point and report back.

Edited by Captain Bash
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Captain Bash said:

maybe its it’s because I have the TSIO-520, but my symptoms are exactly as described in that article. Try a start with full rich, 1/4 throttle and no prime and it comes to life and within a few seconds dies again.  Supposedly, this is from fuel vapor in the lines. In order to purge this paper, it recommends mixture cut off, throttle full and 20 seconds of the boost pump. This is done to purge any fuel vapor that may be still in the lines caused by the warm engine. I’ll give it a shot at some point and report back.

20 seconds isn't nearly long enough to purge the system. In a Continental, you cannot purge too long.

I've had a few airplanes over the years and each engine has their own personality. While I'm currently flying behind an IO-520 in my S35 Bonanza I also have access to and regularly fly a friend's P210. I've flown it +/- 10 hours in the last two weeks. It has the TSIO-520.

If an engine "comes to life and within a few seconds dies again", as it is starting to stumble hit the prime switch intermittently (+/- one second at a time) as needed to keep it running. Usually one or two times is sufficient. I had to do that regularly in my TSIO-360. Like Paul, I never used either boost pump, only prime in my 231.

I'm in Tucson so I have as many truly hot starts as you do.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few things to keep in mind...

1) Continental supplies a system that returns fuel and vapors back to the tanks, often through a more complex fuel selector valve.

2) The amount of fuel moving is going to be related to throttle position, so full in will standardize a couple of things for you.

3) pulling the mixture knob all the way out will keep fuel from getting to the engine accidentally...  leaves all the time needed to get cool fuel in circulation.  The FF indicator shows how long it takes to get steady flow going.... (in my O, which is different that is described by the link given... IO550 G And N, fuel flow indicator works while sending fuel back to the tanks, mixture out...)

4) Sliding the mixture in slowly should find the spot where ignition will occur...

5) I performed a couple of hot starts yesterday with the IO550, it fired up pretty easily, but I found that there is a real possibility of going too rich after that.  Good to bring 201er along for back-up... :)

6) Ks get the coolest fuel system possible delivering fuel to a different spot just for priming...

7) The Lo switch is for cold weather ops... it will keep things running on really chilly days, until it warms up enough in a minute or so...

8) The Hi switch is for when the mechanical pump has gone in strike.

9) For the IO550s the priming procedures use either the high or the low... the low is more accurate while counting Mississippis. The high moves more fuel and makes it shorter amount of time used... practice to see what works best for you...

10) Don’t forget... After priming with the throttle in full... it is really easy to get distracted with all the knobs going in and out... it will start with the throttle full in...

11) There was some service letter lately regarding K fuel systems... for more detail, there is a thread about that around here somewhere...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.