Jump to content

The best C’s?


Recommended Posts

Hey guys! I’m curious to hear about and see some of your C models. I’d love to see some of the more modded out models and hear about their stories.  I have one in mind and would like some ideas on panel upgrades, interior upgrades,  common maintenance issues that you have fixed.   Thanks for sharing! 

 

JA 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jake,

There are no limitations to upgrades... for M20Cs...

Many M20Cs around here have become forever-planes...

The panel can cost 2X what the airframe does...

Aspens, GTNs, JPIs and autopilots... with an attached M20C...

If you have strong financial skills... it helps to be able to suspend your disbelief... :)

If you have forever plane plans for your M20C... the economics really make sense.

Doing upgrades using pre-owned avionics, from a reliable source, can really help...  see the inventory that @Alan Fox has posted on MS...MS also has JPI dealers for new and used engine monitors...

My M20C did really well for a decade with minimal upgrades... prior to MS...  With MS, the support of M20C owners has become incredible...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have owned our 1965 C for about 7 years.  Most of the upgrades were done two owners ago, by a gentlemen from Ohio who flew the wings off of it.  It's mostly 1990ish tech, but it all works nicely.  The combination of HSI, 430W and the S-TEC 60-2 with altitude preselect makes for an easy-traveling plane.  Putting the equivalent modern equipment in a manual gear C makes a lot of sense to me.  You would get full IFR traveling capability in a reliable and easy to maintain airframe.    

Panel 2019.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Jake,

There are no limitations to upgrades... for M20Cs...

Many M20Cs around here have become forever-planes...

The panel can cost 2X what the airframe does...

Aspens, GTNs, JPIs and autopilots... with an attached M20C...

If you have strong financial skills... it helps to be able to suspend your disbelief... :)

If you have forever plane plans for your M20C... the economics really make sense.

Doing upgrades using pre-owned avionics, from a reliable source, can really help...  see the inventory that @Alan Fox has posted on MS...MS also has JPI dealers for new and used engine monitors...

My M20C did really well for a decade with minimal upgrades... prior to MS...  With MS, the support of M20C owners has become incredible...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for your notes! Understand the economics involved with them, I was just looking to find some plane porn to look at while the weather is poor here.  I have a plane in mind that could use an ADSB solution. It has a 430 non WAAS and an old transponder so I think it would be a good candidate for the new 375.  Although I might wait a while and just do the wingtip option for now, until I get it through the next few annual inspections.  

 

Stec 30 AP with alt hold, IFR platform but I don’t have my IFR ticket yet.  I’d like to be able to get the 375 but am wondering if I can hook up the stec 30 to the 375?  And correct me if I’m wrong but the 375 would completely replace the existing transponder box, right?  

Also looking at updating the interior panels and carpet with some better seat covers. I’ve read about the airtex interiors and those seem possible to install with the help of a local A&P. 

But in general I am just looking to hear about examples of upgrades C’s. :)  

 

thanks guys! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jake,

The more people get to know you... the more comfortable they are to share.

Adding some detail to your avatar area is the best way to become familiar.  Really helps to know where in the country you are...

Realistically, Es and Fs are very similar in the areas of the M20C upgrades...

Bob and Marauder have posted a ton of improvements... find their photo galleries... you could be busy until the next front passes... :)

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Jake,

The more people get to know you... the more comfortable they are to share.

Adding some detail to your avatar area is the best way to become familiar.  Really helps to know where in the country you are...

Realistically, Es and Fs are very similar in the areas of the M20C upgrades...

Bob and Marauder have posted a ton of improvements... find their photo galleries... you could be busy until the next front passes... :)

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for the reminder on that! I’ll fill that out more. 

 

GSXR - that is a cool looking bird! The dark paint behind the rear windows looks really good! I bet that adds a few knots! - sure looks like it. That’s the plane I’ve seen you talk about before, right? Do you ever wish you had her back? 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, jakearey said:

GSXR - that is a cool looking bird! The dark paint behind the rear windows looks really good! I bet that adds a few knots! - sure looks like it. That’s the plane I’ve seen you talk about before, right? Do you ever wish you had her back? 

No, I really like my 252. But I wish she was still flying somewhere. It was a really special C.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really loved my C, and like Paul’s it was special.  Had I not injured my shoulder preventing use of the Johnson bar I would still have her.  The mechanics at Maxwells told me it was the best C they had seen come through the shop.  They were speaking of the lack of corrosion and the pristine underpinnings.  She had been hangared at the Kerrville airport since born.  I miss her so much.  She is now owned and lovingly cared for by a United Airlines pilot.  She went to a great home.

I could fly the heck out of that C unlike my current plane which I still have yet to become as comfortable with as the C had become in a shorter number of hours.   I think that the short bodies have the balance of the Al Mooney masterpiece and when they started changing them, they lost their magic.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MBDiagMan said:

I really loved my C, and like Paul’s it was special.  Had I not injured my shoulder preventing use of the Johnson bar I would still have her.  The mechanics at Maxwells told me it was the best C they had seen come through the shop.  They were speaking of the lack of corrosion and the pristine underpinnings.  She had been hangared at the Kerrville airport since born.  I miss her so much.  She is now owned and lovingly cared for by a United Airlines pilot.  She went to a great home.

I could fly the heck out of that C unlike my current plane which I still have yet to become as comfortable with as the C had become in a shorter number of hours.   I think that the short bodies have the balance of the Al Mooney masterpiece and when they started changing them, they lost their magic.

Sounds very nice! I’m glad to hear she is still flying and well cared for! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is a help to the original poster's question, but I find it very interesting.  My understanding is that in the late '60s, the manufacturing of the 'C models was at its peak.  I can't remember the exact years, but if I remember correctly, in 1966 or 67, they built new tooling for manufacture and built the straightest, fastest 'C models made.  It took a bit to get the use of the tooling down, and I believe it was in '67 that they peaked.  Unfortunately, it wasn't too long and in '68, they had financial trouble.  (again, my dates may be a bit off)  After they were sold to Republic, there were a number of changes that made for worse airplanes, like fewer flush rivets in the wings.  I have a fairly modified 1962 C model.  My father has a 67 C model.  Stock, His was 10mph faster than mine.  His has damage history, mine does not.

Other things to note is that in the early '60s, the heat was only in the front seat foot wells.  (my '62 is this way.)  I'm not certain of the years, but later on, there was heat piped to the back seats as well... Oh, do I wish I had that, my poor kids in the back freeze.  I've thought of retrofitting it with later parts, but it seems a lot of work.

I'm certain there were other refinements as the years moved along, but things did not always get better (as with the flush riveting or with making the electric gear standard).

Just my $0.02.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4-seat heat... requires a few dollars of hardware... and everything else working as designed... no broken parts...

My C flooded heat under the center of the instrument panel...

The modern O, does this intentionally...

The important difference... all the seals of the O work better than the M20C...

Spend the money on the seals first...

Never trust the dad... they stay awake at night trying to stay a step ahead... :)

Best regards,

-a-

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, cctsurf said:

I don't know if this is a help to the original poster's question, but I find it very interesting.  My understanding is that in the late '60s, the manufacturing of the 'C models was at its peak.  I can't remember the exact years, but if I remember correctly, in 1966 or 67, they built new tooling for manufacture and built the straightest, fastest 'C models made.  It took a bit to get the use of the tooling down, and I believe it was in '67 that they peaked.  Unfortunately, it wasn't too long and in '68, they had financial trouble.  (again, my dates may be a bit off)  After they were sold to Republic, there were a number of changes that made for worse airplanes, like fewer flush rivets in the wings.  I have a fairly modified 1962 C model.  My father has a 67 C model.  Stock, His was 10mph faster than mine.  His has damage history, mine does not.

Other things to note is that in the early '60s, the heat was only in the front seat foot wells.  (my '62 is this way.)  I'm not certain of the years, but later on, there was heat piped to the back seats as well... Oh, do I wish I had that, my poor kids in the back freeze.  I've thought of retrofitting it with later parts, but it seems a lot of work.

I'm certain there were other refinements as the years moved along, but things did not always get better (as with the flush riveting or with making the electric gear standard).

Just my $0.02.

That is interesting! The C that I have my hands on right now is a 62 as well.  Thanks for sharing! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no reason not to fully modernize the avionics on a C model, assuming one wants to keep it a while and use it as a serious  traveling machine.  I redid my panel completely upon buying my C almost 5 years ago, and I will make a couple more upgrades this year.  After substantial upgrades, the fixed costs remain essentially the same, and it is the still the cheapest Mooney to operate and far cheaper than other certified aircraft of equal capability.  Like the rest of the Mooneys, the Cs are very capable IFR platforms at their core and thus  realize the full benefit of modern avionics.  And some of the upgrades make the routine operational costs cheaper (e.g. taking out the vac).   

image.thumb.png.a833db8a91bbb5ad70a00903ee1ba9d1.png

image.png.13aa1a18c31ba0963c13dd434debe4eb.png

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, cctsurf said:

Best article ever penned... err... typed...

Written by an engineer...

Absorbed by an engineer...

It armed me with all the info I needed to buy an M20C, just a few months later...

Interesting forward reference to the new M20R...

 

Thank You, Bob Kromer!  Mooney engineer, test pilot, writer for Mapa, speaker at Mooney Summit, and MooneyMax.

 

Mr. Kromer wrote a few of these articles for various Mooney models...

I dreamed of a M20J...

I wanted an M20F...

The E was everything I needed...

The C was everything I could afford...   :)

The prices stated in the article are much higher than they are in today’s money...

A decade later... Wash, rinse, repeat... M20R... :)

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Best article ever penned... err... typed...

Written by an engineer...

Absorbed by an engineer...

It armed me with all the info I needed to buy an M20C, just a few months later...

Yep, I read his articles on the K's. He wrote one on the 231's and then another on the 252's. Next thing I knew N6XM was up for sale and N252AD became my forever Mooney.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, DXB said:

There's no reason not to fully modernize the avionics on a C model, assuming one wants to keep it a while and use it as a serious  traveling machine.  I redid my panel completely upon buying my C almost 5 years ago, and I will make a couple more upgrades this year.  After substantial upgrades, the fixed costs remain essentially the same, and it is the still the cheapest Mooney to operate and far cheaper than other certified aircraft of equal capability.  Like the rest of the Mooneys, the Cs are very capable IFR platforms at their core and thus  realize the full benefit of modern avionics.  And some of the upgrades make the routine operational costs cheaper (e.g. taking out the vac).   

image.thumb.png.a833db8a91bbb5ad70a00903ee1ba9d1.png

image.png.13aa1a18c31ba0963c13dd434debe4eb.png

I want those yokes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moneys are airplanes, and share any if not most components with other airplanes.  The things to watch out more on a Mooney are the things you would watch out for on just about any other airplane with one important exception.

Mooneys have wet wings.  The seals in them are all 50 years old, so if the seals in your target airplane haven't been redone, they're either leaking or will leak.  The long term fixes are expensive, but they work.

The only other issue I can think of is the early Mooneys have very shallow panels.  As a result, you might wind up hunting for space.  That said, if you're really going to ignore financial reality there are lots of small boxes that do oodles of stuff.  The one nice thing about bringing an airplane up to snuff is you have a far nicer airplane than you can buy, unless you buy it from the last guy to bring the airplane up to snuff.

Edited by steingar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, the photos are of my 1963 C model.  We have owned the airplane for over 12 years.  Instead of paying for a wedding, my wife and I bought the airplane, flew it out to Santa Fe from Texas and eloped in Taos, New Mexico.

Photos are of the original paint, new paint, original panel and new panel.  Well, the photos got out of order but you get the gist. :)

 

D - Panel Post-op.jpgA - Original Paint.jpg

B - New Paint.jpg

2121625123_C-PanelPre-op.thumb.jpg.cca7a12f9702cf58c5e4aa76103981a7.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.