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1967 20F engine


ESPN168

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Looking to buy a Mooney that has no prop and engine. A 1967 20F. What is the best new Lycoming 360 engine for this model  and year. Looking for a 3 blade prop. I know the original is a IO 360  A1A? Since I am looking to put a new engine and prop, glass cockpit what are my options for best engine/3 blade prop combo performance?  Thx.

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49 minutes ago, ESPN168 said:

Looking to buy a Mooney that has no prop and engine. A 1967 20F. What is the best new Lycoming 360 engine for this model  and year. Looking for a 3 blade prop. I know the original is a IO 360  A1A? Since I am looking to put a new engine and prop, glass cockpit what are my options for best engine/3 blade prop combo performance?  Thx.

I would suggest that you go with the approved A1A engine from the TCDS. What is driving your desire for a 3 bladed prop?  Is it the extra weight or the speed loss that you find appealing? ;)

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I’m a big fan of the TopProp...:)

http://hartzellprop.com/wp-content/uploads/Mooney-Combined-PrcSht-Order.pdf

The TopProp May also be available in several forms... thick, thin, and composite...

 

If going MT there are a few things to consider regarding leading edge treatment... the Nickel LE was probably the preferred one...

http://www.mt-propellerusa.com/en/mtusa/stcs/mooney_2.htm

Scott in Kansas has an MT on his IO360...

 

PP thoughts only, it’s been years since I purchased a prop...

The MT STC was only a couple months late for me to buy one... so it fell out of the competition...

Best regards,

-a-

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53 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I would suggest that you go with the approved A1A engine from the TCDS. What is driving your desire for a 3 bladed prop?  Is it the extra weight or the speed loss that you find appealing? ;)

Mainly for looks:) I was hoping it wouldn't shaved any Vxy.

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2 minutes ago, ESPN168 said:

Mainly for looks:) I was hoping it wouldn't shaved any Vxy.

Minelooks good, climbs awesome and cruises above book speed . . . Jealous types say it's slow because they don't have one.  :P

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56 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Agreed.  Stick with the A1A from the type certificate.  As far as three blade props go the MT is the only one I would consider.  It is the only after market prop available that is both lighter and provides better ground clearance than the OEM Hartzell.  The two blade after market Hartzell Top Prop is also an option and it might be knot or two faster but it is quite a bit heavier than the MT.

Jim

Thanks,  I like taking weight of the plane. Maybe upgrading avionics and getting rid of the old wires at the same time might reduced a lot as well.

 

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ESPN,

It may help to know...

If this is a forever-plane... or if resale in a shorter period of time is expected...

Are you on a CB’s mission... or if Spending a few extra AMUs is OK...

It would be really cool if you were building a plane to be better than new...

 

A roller bearing cam followers IO360 might be interesting... there are a few around here...

lately people have been selecting dual independent magnetos, with one that is electronic ignition...

Then select a really good engine monitor to watch over your investment...

MSers take a precision approach to spending OPM... :)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

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1 hour ago, Hank said:

Minelooks good, climbs awesome and cruises above book speed . . . Jealous types say it's slow because they don't have one.  :P

It’s physics Hank, not jealousy. You’d probably have the fastes C in the world if you went to a two blade.

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2 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

You won’t lose climb, just cruise speed. The F model is a strong climber for a 200hp machine regardless of prop selection.

I used to go from engine start to 7500 msl cruise, plane accelerated, power set and leaned in less than 15 minutes. Haven't timed it since moving back South. I'm sure results in summer will be different! 

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10 hours ago, carusoam said:

ESPN,

It may help to know...

If this is a forever-plane... or if resale in a shorter period of time is expected...

Are you on a CB’s mission... or if Spending a few extra AMUs is OK...

It would be really cool if you were building a plane to be better than new...

 

A roller bearing cam followers IO360 might be interesting... there are a few around here...

lately people have been selecting dual independent magnetos, with one that is electronic ignition...

Then select a really good engine monitor to watch over your investment...

MSers take a precision approach to spending OPM... :)

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Caru, this would be a forever plane.

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12 hours ago, ESPN168 said:

Thanks,  I like taking weight of the plane. Maybe upgrading avionics and getting rid of the old wires at the same time might reduced a lot as well.

 

The MT 3 blade is 46 lbs and 71 in

Hartzell 2 blade is 62-64 lbs and 74 in

Hartzell 3 blade is 74 lbs and 74 in

 

If weight climb and performance are you thing and the budget is open then the MT it is.  However, the MT reputation is not as high as Hartzell.  My research showed for that for me it is MT depending on budget at the time I will need to replace.    Based on my understanding (PP only) the older MT's used a different process and were not as good as the newer process. D Max and many other Mooney experts are certainly not impressed with the MT and in-particularly the older MT's vs Hartzell or McCaully.  There is also the whole MT is overseas and the others are in the US so in theory ("they say") service is better here just because you don't have to wait for time and distance thing. 

 

Haven't done any research on engines other than you should make sure you have a good engine monitor and GAMI injectors.  I would also have the pistons port and polished could add upto 20hp.

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Too bad you can't hand an IO540 on the front of the F model.  That would be the way to go.

Does Lycoming still offer the IO390?  That would get you some extra pony's under the cowling.

 

Glad to hear you are considering this project plane.  Once you get started please keep us up to date with photos.

 

 

 

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:08 AM, wcb said:

The MT 3 blade is 46 lbs and 71 in

Hartzell 2 blade is 62-64 lbs and 74 in

Hartzell 3 blade is 74 lbs and 74 in

I am a sucker for upgrading my humble C. There appear to be STC'd MT prop options for many O-360 planes, but not the C model :/

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1 hour ago, DXB said:

I am a sucker for upgrading my humble C. There appear to be STC'd MT prop options for many O-360 planes, but not the C model :/

Dev,

Call MT... their US office is in Florida.

Get the communication started.

:)

-a-

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:08 AM, wcb said:

The MT 3 blade is 46 lbs and 71 in

Hartzell 2 blade is 62-64 lbs and 74 in

Hartzell 3 blade is 74 lbs and 74 in

 

If weight climb and performance are you thing and the budget is open then the MT it is.  However, the MT reputation is not as high as Hartzell.  My research showed for that for me it is MT depending on budget at the time I will need to replace.    Based on my understanding (PP only) the older MT's used a different process and were not as good as the newer process. D Max and many other Mooney experts are certainly not impressed with the MT and in-particularly the older MT's vs Hartzell or McCaully.  There is also the whole MT is overseas and the others are in the US so in theory ("they say") service is better here just because you don't have to wait for time and distance thing. 

 

Haven't done any research on engines other than you should make sure you have a good engine monitor and GAMI injectors.  I would also have the pistons port and polished could add upto 20hp.

Wow, with an MT and a few other changes I could get back to the F models marketed useful load of 1100lbs..maybe a touch more.

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38 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Wow, with an MT and a few other changes I could get back to the F models marketed useful load of 1100lbs..maybe a touch more.

I have gotten some useful load back by adding the G5's, JPI, removing old Suction, ADF, DME and wiring etc etc.  I think I am pushing 1050 lbs currently.  As far as stuff I can carry I added another almost 15 lbs of load by dropping almost 15 off most the waist area!

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4 minutes ago, wcb said:

I have gotten some useful load back by adding the G5's, JPI, removing old Suction, ADF, DME and wiring etc etc.  I think I am pushing 1050 lbs currently.  As far as stuff I can carry I added another almost 15 lbs of load by dropping almost 15 off most the waist area!

I’m currently at 1060lbs with an ADF (placarded inop) and a generator..

 

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