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Would you want a turn and bank with a Castleberry?

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The prior owner of my plane removed the turn and bank and put a Castleberry in it's place.  A guy who flies the plane a lot, including in IFR, and who is used to the typical turn rate indicator, thinks we should have both instruments.  (There is a good space for it).  I don't have any IFR experience yet, so I don't know.  Will I want the turn rate indicator AND the Castleberry for IFR?  The panel will be coming apart in August.  Cost will probably be about 1 AMU.  Would I be pennywise and pound foolish to cheap out and not do it?  Thanks!   

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No. The castleberry is a more capable instrument than a turn and bank. 

Also there is no longer a need for a 2 minute turn indicator. 17 degrees of bank at 100kt.  22 degrees at 150kt. 

Edited by jetdriven
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No. The castleberry is a more capable instrument than a turn and bank. 
Also there is no longer a need for a 2 minute turn indicator. 17 degrees of bank at 100kt.  22 degrees at 150kt. 


Yeah I was wondering how I could do my IFR partial panel training if I dumped my turn & bank. Are these speeds and bank angles in the POH?


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13 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

No. The castleberry is a more capable instrument than a turn and bank. 

Also there is no longer a need for a 2 minute turn indicator. 17 degrees of bank at 100kt.  22 degrees at 150kt. 

Agree, ball on the Castleberry still used for coordination and the formula I learned for rate of turn is: airspeed / 10 times 1.5. In other words, 100/10 = 10, X 1.5 = 15, which is very close to Jetdrivens 17. Second example is within half a degree.

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Right out of the IR training.... bank angle and speed define time to turn.... select a proper pair and click the timer... Byron is always on the money!

The TC is nice because it helps you nail the bank no matter what speed you are going.... but if you are sloppy at holding the bank... your timing is going to be a bit off anyway....

 

Value of the TC is becoming much less with age or over time....

The TC stinks for a back-up AI... as it wears... it becomes more sensitive to bumps.... so sensitive it may not work good enough to follow to keep the clean side up after an AI failure...

So... it is probably a good question to ask your CFII... but realistically .... you now have several battery powered nav devices that will keep you from ever needing to time an actual turn... :)

First world challenges...

Best regards,

-a-

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With a Garmin portable and a couple of devices running GP or FF there isn't much need to time turns anymore. A turn and bank is a good learning instrument for a new IFR pilot but it certainly isn't worth another 1K.

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Depends on space too.  I managed to keep the turn coordinator with my second ADI. I really like having it as a tie breaker in case of a failure.  However, given the choice, I would pick two ADIs and do a little extra math for the standard rate turn.

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If I were IFR and have lost my primary attitude indicator, I would declare an emergency. In most places where I fly I would expect priority treatment from controllers and would think I’d get vectored for a straight in approach if I absolutely could not fly a visual approach. Flying into locations that require significant terrain navigation and avoidance on approach fall outside of my personal IFR minimums. 

AVL May be ok for an approach. ASE, no way. 

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I have 2 AIs and 1 turn and bank. Why? Because I can still launch with any one of them inop on the ground. If you stay the way you have it, the moment you have a vac failure or ai failure at preflight, you can’t launch IFR because there is no back up. However, the way I have it set up, I can launch IFR with any single unit failed because I still have a main and a backup remaining. AI+TC or AI+AI.

Edited by 201er
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12 minutes ago, 201er said:

I have 2 AIs and 1 turn and bank. Why? Because I can still launch with any one of them inop on the ground. If you stay the way you have it, the moment you have a vac failure or ai failure at preflight, you can’t launch IFR because there is no back up. However, the way I have it set up, I can launch IFR with any single unit failed because I still have a main and a backup remaining. AI+TC or AI+AI.

I have a G500 and two AI, three of you count the FlightStream’s AHRS.  That is so best 3 of 4 wins.

(Of course if any one of them fails I can’t launch...91.213 does not treat turbine aircraft as leniently as piston birds)

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