eman1200

is a mooney faster than a grumman?

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Yes,

  • And keeps you dry while loading the plane...
  • And Keeps you from being concerned about the age of all that glue... rivets don’t have age limits...
  • And when Mooney said they built the fastest, factory built, NA, Four seater... they didn’t leave out any of the competition....
  • And we get to use nose wheel steering too... important to know after you have done the T/O distance calculations...  how much braking did I use?  How much runway is still left?

Just me thinking out loud...

-a-

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2 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Yes,

  • And keeps you dry while loading the plane...
  • And Keeps you from being concerned about the age of all that glue... rivets don’t have age limits...
  • And when Mooney said the built the fastest, factory built, NA, Four seater... they didn’t leave out any of the competition....
  • And we get to use nose wheel steering too...

Just me thinking out loud...

-a-

too much thinkin', bruh.

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To be fair you’d have to compare the AA5B Tiger to a Fixed gear fixed prop M20D.  I think the outcome would be different.

Clarence

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8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Yes,

  • And keeps you dry while loading the plane...

-a-

Nah, a Mooney’s cockpit will stay dry while you get wet loading it. A Cessna on the other hand...

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Don’t forget to click on Eman’s link... in the OP.

There is a brief vid.   The link may be hidden on some screens... :)

-a-

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54 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

To be fair you’d have to compare the AA5B Tiger to a Fixed gear fixed prop M20D.  I think the outcome would be different.

Clarence

Actually the AA5A Cheetah (150hp) or the AA5B Tiger (180hp) will outrun M20D model dragging it’s clunky, high profile gear through the sky. Mooney gear was clearly designed for strength and simplicity without a thought given to aerodynamics. I doubt those fairings they designed as an afterthought made much difference. 

Personally, I have always liked the Grumman design but felt they screwed it up but putting on a nose wheel. I toured the factory in 2006 when they were producing them at a neighboring airport. Solid looking airframe but a bit unconventional in its construction. 

Edited by Shadrach

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A Tiger was my choice as a first airplane back in 1989 when I earned my PPL, until a partnership in a J model presented at my home airport. I’m glad it did.

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Tigers cost way more than Mooneys, and they are slower.  Sorry, a Mooney is the biggest bang for your buck in all GA save experimentals, and even then it isn't easy to keep up with them for the same money.  

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4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

To be fair you’d have to compare the AA5B Tiger to a Fixed gear fixed prop M20D.  I think the outcome would be different.

Clarence

Mine was born a fixed gear/prop, can I still use it for comparison? :lol:

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First plane owned was an AA1B.  I'd still like to have one with a TD conversion and an O-320...I know...just buy an older RV.

 

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15 hours ago, carusoam said:

Yes,

  • And keeps you dry while loading the plane...
  • And Keeps you from being concerned about the age of all that glue... rivets don’t have age limits...
  • And when Mooney said they built the fastest, factory built, NA, Four seater... they didn’t leave out any of the competition....
  • And we get to use nose wheel steering too... important to know after you have done the T/O distance calculations...  how much braking did I use?  How much runway is still left?

Just me thinking out loud...

-a-

My understanding from Grumman owners is that the glue issues are greatly overblown.   However, they can be screwed up pretty easily if you're not careful.   We have a couple Yankees (AA-1s) in the shop at school and the story with one of them is that the owner applied some paint stripper preparing for a new paint job.   It got under some of the seams and there was no way to verify the integrity of the glue at that point.   Hence, grounded and now a shop airplane at an A&P school.  D'oh.

 

Edited by EricJ
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6 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Mine was born a fixed gear/prop, can I still use it for comparison? :lol:

No! 

Clarence

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Not this Grumman.....oh, you were talking about his little brothers.... :P:ph34r::D

tomcat4.jpg.3f3d8f7595feeb3e499ed9a63ebfed0e.jpg

Cheers,

Brian

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47 minutes ago, flight2000 said:

Not this Grumman.....oh, you were talking about his little brothers.... :P:ph34r::D

Technically, all F-14's now have a top speed of zero :(

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15 hours ago, M20Doc said:

To be fair you’d have to compare the AA5B Tiger to a Fixed gear fixed prop M20D.  I think the outcome would be different.

Clarence

If you're gonna use the top-performing Grumman, compare the AA-5 against a top-performing Mooney Ultra, with 100KIAS more.

If you're gonna use the low end of the Mooney line, compare the M20-D against an AA-1. Mooney still wins.

Or put an Ultra against an AA-1 . . . . .

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7 hours ago, Hank said:

If you're gonna use the top-performing Grumman, compare the AA-5 against a top-performing Mooney Ultra, with 100KIAS more.

If you're gonna use the low end of the Mooney line, compare the M20-D against an AA-1. Mooney still wins.

Or put an Ultra against an AA-1 . . . . .

The comparison I made is airframes of the same seating capacity, the same horsepower, the same gear style, the same fixed pitch propeller.  The Grumman would win in this case.

Clarence

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3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The comparison I made is airframes of the same seating capacity, the same horsepower, the same gear style, the same fixed pitch propeller.  The Grumman would win in this case.

Clarence

Are you a Grumman service center also, Clarence? I think the glue repairs are clouding your reasoning some. :)

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On 5/11/2019 at 6:10 AM, M20Doc said:

The comparison I made is airframes of the same seating capacity, the same horsepower, the same gear style, the same fixed pitch propeller.  The Grumman would win in this case.

Clarence

The more logical comparison would be to compare airframes at the same price point.  Thus you're comparing a Tiger to an E in most instances.  A Chaparral is so much faster than a Tiger to be laughable.

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3 hours ago, steingar said:

The more logical comparison would be to compare airframes at the same price point.  Thus you're comparing a Tiger to an E in most instances.  A Chaparral is so much faster than a Tiger to be laughable.

To be fair the comparison is the same power, same propeller type, same gear type and same seating capacity and see what the outcome is.

If budget is brought into the mix we’ll need to compare purchase cost as well as all of the other budget considerations like steel cage  corrosion repair, fuel tank repair, spar corrosion repair and overall operational costs.  Again I think the winner will be the Grumman Tiger.

Clarence

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Simple question answered by the video posted. To be fair in a Mooney you can hide the gear and adjust the prop which makes it faster. Don't get me wrong I like the little Grummans but as mentioned above nothing in the vintage market gives you as much performance for as little dollars as our beloved short body hundred eighty horse C's

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It really was just a goofy little video meant for a laugh....no over analyzing needed but I guess that’s good ‘ol mooneyspace for ya.

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14 hours ago, M20Doc said:

To be fair the comparison is the same power, same propeller type, same gear type and same seating capacity and see what the outcome is.

If budget is brought into the mix we’ll need to compare purchase cost as well as all of the other budget considerations like steel cage  corrosion repair, fuel tank repair, spar corrosion repair and overall operational costs.  Again I think the winner will be the Grumman Tiger.

Clarence

I have no doubt that Grummans have their own squawks.  Like I said, Tigers go for the price of a really nice J bar E.  I'd take the E every time. I honestly think Grummans are badly overpriced.   

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