afward Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Well, we might've found our starter plane: A 1963 M20C (I'll ask for comments in the vintage forum here). I'm obviously a little excited, but unfortunately I'm also not current and don't have ready access to get that way quickly. So I'm in a bit of a pickle: How do I test-fly and airplane I'm not proficient enough to fly? My home airport is KSUZ, and the plane in question is at KRST. What would be your suggestions for handling this situation? I can drive there (26 hours round-trip!), but I'll still need someone who knows what to look at to actually check it out... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 There are a lot of KRSTs in google, but this one is apparently in Rochester, MN, a long, long way from @afward and even further, much further, from me . . . . Hope things work out well for you, we really love our C! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 PPI can include the test flying part... I used a guy named DMax... for that... That far away costs a lot of extra time and money... Short cutting the obvious can get really expensive extra fast... See if an MSer can give it the once over... then send it for PPI... It is hard to get excited about that much work that far away... or adsorbing so much risk... on the unknown... Do you have a transition trainer in mind...? This might be the time to use his expertise and do some training on the flight home. Try to find something closer to home for your first plane... Ken Reed often shares his experience of buying good planes without even seeing them... so it is possible... Buying machines at a distance isn’t very hard... making sure it meets your expectations is quite the challenge... If you don’t have expectations... get ready first, then buy the plane... PP thoughts only, not a CFI... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 @Hank KRST in Rochester, MN is correct. @carusoam I'd thought of having OasisAero in WIllmar do the PPI, and looking for someone to do transition training was already on my to-do list. The hardest part seemed to be getting in-person with the thing and having someone who could fly it safely to help me check it out. All that said, your point is not lost on me; finding something I can reasonably get to (and back!) in a day seems wise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 On the other hand, you don't find great M20C's for sale in every city. So when you find a good one, it's worth going to get it. Here are my suggestions... Use the MooneySpace map to see who from MooneySpace here is close to KRST. Reach out to them to see if they'd go by and look at it for you. This is just to have someone other than the seller tell you about the plane. Assuming you still want the plane after this... Negotiate a purchase price pending a pre-buy inspection and arrange to have the guys at OasisAero do the pre-buy. At this point, buy a plane ticket to Minnesota and go look at it yourself and talk with Oasis. Arrange to be there the day Oasis gets the plane. Assuming all is still go... Leave the plane with Oasis and go home. Await the results of the pre-buy... Also start arranging for a CFI to fly the plane home with you from KRST. Assuming a successful pre-buy inspection, wire the funds to the seller, call the CFI and go get the plane. In my opinion, flying the plane is much less important than the pre-buy inspection. You might also send the details/link to the plane you're interested in, so one of us here on the forum to help you evaluate it and make an informed decision. There is a lot of experience on this forum and several who have bought and sold a lot of Mooneys. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) Looking at the map, I see a couple people that might help. I'll reach out to them privately. I started a separate thread to discuss the plane itself (seemed appropriate to split the discussions). It's over in the vintage topic if you'd like to jump in there. I'd certainly appreciate any advice or commentary anyone can provide. Edited May 10, 2019 by afward Fixing wierd extra spaces? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Says me go visit said airplane and owner, and see if said owner can take you for a flight before or after the PPI. Give you a chance to see everything at work. A good idea would be to hire a CFI to give you instruction as you fly said airplane back home. I wound up having to train int eh aircraft remotely, which wasn't ideal. But it worked out. Don't be afraid to do lots of dual. Moneys are neither hard to fly or land. But they'll bite if treated wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, steingar said: Says me go visit said airplane and owner, and see if said owner can take you for a flight before or after the PPI. Give you a chance to see everything at work. A good idea would be to hire a CFI to give you instruction as you fly said airplane back home. I wound up having to train int eh aircraft remotely, which wasn't ideal. But it worked out. Don't be afraid to do lots of dual. Moneys are neither hard to fly or land. But they'll bite if treated wrong. If we move forward with an offer and PPI, I certainly will go to the plane to fly in it. At the point I know we're moving forward I'll also search out a CFI for transition training. It'll probably be more than just the minimum hours just so I know I'm comfortable with it. We'll see how it works out... My impression is that Mooneys, in general, don't tolerate sloppiness like certain other types... Not a bad thing, IMO. I don't doubt I'll get pretty good at going around before I get good at not needing to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, afward said: If we move forward with an offer and PPI, I certainly will go to the plane to fly in it. At the point I know we're moving forward I'll also search out a CFI for transition training. It'll probably be more than just the minimum hours just so I know I'm comfortable with it. We'll see how it works out... My impression is that Mooneys, in general, don't tolerate sloppiness like certain other types... Not a bad thing, IMO. I don't doubt I'll get pretty good at going around before I get good at not needing to. The most important thing in a Mooney is to be on speed on final. In your Ranger if you're over the numbers at 75mph and hold it off the airplane will land itself. The only caution about going around is a Mooney in landing configuration has the mother of all pitch up motions when you firewall it. It can easily be handled but will be a real surprise if you aren't ready for it. Good luck in your purchase, and do post up some photos when you're done. Like I said, I think the one you're looking at is a bargain for the price. Isn't ideal, but for the ideal plane you're going either going to pay a lot more or search a lot more and get a lot more lucky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 A few points. I would not fly PIC in a plane I am looking to purchase anyway. I would want the seller to take me for a ride. If it is at a broker the broker can be PIC. So it doesn't matter being current or rated. In fact, for both of my Mooney purchases I was not qualified to fly it when I bought it. For the J I was not complex rated and for the Encore I was not high performance rated. Transition training took care of those short comings. Regarding the pre-purchase, there is a ton you can do on your own without employing a mechanic. Take off the cowl and take a look. Are things neat and clean? Or are they oily, dirty, chafed, corroded, and worn? Even a novice can spot the difference. Remove the tail avionics bay panel and take a look in the tail. Look for corrosion and dirt. Remove wing access panels and take a look inside. Look in the wheel wells for corrosion. Take a look at the logbooks. Look for regular oil changes and maintenance. 10 hours and no maintenance between annuals is a red flag. Years with no annual is a red flag. I looked at a number of planes and I have rejected a lot of planes in my pre-pre purchase inspection. Once past that we can pay for a pro pre-purchase inspection. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 I am based just north of you at CXW. I have access to an M20C in Conway if you ever want to come up; I own a K (252). We have 4 (or 5) Mooneys based here. I think there is another guy flying a short body out of SUZ, recently. There is an SR22 based there that I fly some for the owners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 Yeah, I'd seen your location before and thought we might arrange a meeting sometime if I ever got around to a real introduction... Didn't realize there were so many Mooneys over there, though. That said, I know at least one SUZ-based short body and have been in it for a couple flights (not PIC). My wife has also sat in it, though the front seats were out at the time for annual. Are any of the Mooney pilots there current CFIs? SUZ doesn't have a Mooney CFI (the club has four or five CFIs, but none are Mooney-specific). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 @larryb You make a fine point about the test flight. Of course, that takes me back to the problem of getting to the bird to check it out... I did just receive the last ten years of logbooks, and I'm told he has the rest but hasn't digitized them yet. I'll probably spend some time tomorrow going through what he sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, afward said: Yeah, I'd seen your location before and thought we might arrange a meeting sometime if I ever got around to a real introduction... Didn't realize there were so many Mooneys over there, though. That said, I know at least one SUZ-based short body and have been in it for a couple flights (not PIC). My wife has also sat in it, though the front seats were out at the time for annual. Are any of the Mooney pilots there current CFIs? SUZ doesn't have a Mooney CFI (the club has four or five CFIs, but none are Mooney-specific). Yes the other 252 owner is a CFI and a long-time Mooney owner - a C before the 252, but currently flies for a local company. We also have a few other guys that have other jobs (professional pilots) that could work for CFI check-outs in a Mooney. Hopefully soon, I can finish my CFI up and be another resource. My 252 is currently offline for complete panel upgrade but is in the final stretch of completion. As you get closer, let me know how I can help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 Order the disk from the FAA if you are serious 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, Yetti said: Order the disk from the FAA if you are serious Order it, even if you're not I must have a dozen, or more, from when I was shopping. They are all of $10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Taylor Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, MikeOH said: Order it, even if you're not I must have a dozen, or more, from when I was shopping. They are all of $10. Just keep in mind that it takes a while. I just got my disc, ordered 4 weeks prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, Ross Taylor said: Just keep in mind that it takes a while. I just got my disc, ordered 4 weeks prior. So order it now, @afward! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ross Taylor said: Just keep in mind that it takes a while. I just got my disc, ordered 4 weeks prior. WOW! That is SLOW. It's been a couple of years since I ordered one, but it only took a week, at most. There's government progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRodgers Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 39 minutes ago, Ross Taylor said: Just keep in mind that it takes a while. I just got my disc, ordered 4 weeks prior. DISC? What are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Yetti said: Order the disk from the FAA if you are serious 9 hours ago, MikeOH said: Order it, even if you're not I must have a dozen, or more, from when I was shopping. They are all of $10. 8 hours ago, Hank said: So order it now, @afward! Ordered. @Yetti thanks for the reminder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Taylor Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 10 hours ago, MrRodgers said: DISC? What are you referring to? You can order a CD-ROM disc with all of their 337 records. We got ours after buying a '66 E, so I could compare the 337s I have to what the FAA has. In this particular case, the recommendation is to order that disc pre-purchase... a good idea that I didn't even know about until recently. https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/copies_aircraft_records/ Edit to add a note: I had to hunt our PCs at work to find one with a working CD drive, so I could move the files to a flash drive. If you really want to be nostalgic, you can fax them your request. Considering what went into making and mailing the disc, $10 is a bargain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 saavyaviator.com has a pre buy service. They'll check the logs for free. Their fees are inconsequencial compared to repairs later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afward Posted May 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) Well, I'm having a little difficulty getting eyes on the plane I have under consideration (seller isn't the most responsive and at best I'm a couple weeks out from being able to go myself), so... Would it be better to buy a '63 C that's already ADS-B compliant, has a mid-time engine and non-AD prop hub, but needs IFR re-cert (and probably AI overhaul + new clock), probably new gear pucks, and doesn't have A/P or GPS, OR... ... a '68 C with GX60, STEC30 w/ alt hold & "GPS nav tracking" (GPSS?), 6-pack panel, Strikefinder, nice paint & decent interior, sold by a broker at a lower cost, but has a beyond TBO engine and needs a new CDI to be IFR legal (has a single HSI now)? Edit: Or should I hold off until there's better inventory available? Edited May 14, 2019 by afward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 14, 2019 Report Share Posted May 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, afward said: Well, I'm having a little difficulty getting eyes on the plane I have under consideration (seller isn't the most responsive and at best I'm a couple weeks out from being able to go myself), so... Would it be better to buy a '63 C that's already ADS-B compliant, has a mid-time engine and non-AD prop hub, but needs IFR re-cert (and probably AI overhaul + new clock), probably new gear pucks, and doesn't have A/P or GPS, OR... ... a '68 C with GX60, STEC30 w/ alt hold & "GPS nav tracking" (GPSS?), 6-pack panel, Strikefinder, nice paint & decent interior, sold by a broker at a lower cost, but has a beyond TBO engine and needs a new CDI to be IFR legal (has a single HSI now)? Edit: Or should I hold off until there's better inventory available? Post some links... or send them in a PM. I'd be interested to take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.