Dynon D2 Pocket Panel going bananas & battery replacement

[tigers2007]

Anyone try to upgrade the firmware on their D2 and have it go crazy? I sent them in inquiry but I'm not expecting much in response besides paying $300 for a flat-rate repair. Also my battery only lasts about 20 minutes (far from the four hours advertised when it was new). I'm confident the Lithium Ion battery took a crap when it was subject to -30F temperatures.  I'm going to try reflashing it today and seeing if that fixes it.

It'll work fine for a few minutes and then it'll look like I'm in a deep dive (see photo).

[NJMac]

How old is yours? I was going to get one to backup my new Aspen

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[tigers2007]

6 hours ago, NJMac said:

How old is yours? I was going to get one to backup my new Aspen

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I think I bought it at the end of December 2016 because of a $100 rebate (IIRC). The new D3 looks awesome. I think used D2's in good condition fetch around $400 on eBay.

I tried re-flashing it today and it wouldn't take the file as it already has the same firmware version on board. Maybe they'll teach me how to force-flash it with some sort of shell login. I really hope they don't ask me to spend the 0.3 AMU. Now if they offered me 50% off of a D3 I would take that in a heartbeat. This has been a great device and I will admit that it has maintained my sanity a couple times when I found myself pushing the limits of VFR.

[tigers2007]

I opened it up by removing the four tiny Phillips screws on the back. It appears to be powered by hand-assembled custom battery pack. I can construct the same thing for about $20 from components on Amazon.







Chinese battery pack: YDL 3.7V 2800mAh 623360 Lipo battery Rechargeable Lithium Polymer ion Battery Pack with JST Connector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BTRLKPT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_d.5ZCbY8WKM9Q


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[tigers2007]

From Dynon:

The GPS satellites run under a 20 year clock. Two weeks ago they reset those clocks and some of our older equipment is having trouble with it. The external antenna will not be able to acquire a GPS fix and the D2 needs a fix to operate. The internal antenna is still functional; it will need a clear view of the sky and may take a little longer to acquire the fix.

I can send you a replacement external antenna. There is no charge for this (outside of shipping) and you will have to send your old antenna back to us. Let me know if you want to proceed with the replacement.

Jeff Fox
Technical Support Specialist
Dynon
425-402-0433 Main

 

 

The D2 needs a GPS fix in order to function, the internal antenna is not as sensitive and you could be experiencing temporary drop outs as you fly and your position changes.

I will setup a RMA for the return of your old antenna and send you a new one.

Jeff Fox
Technical Support Specialist
Dynon
425-402-0433 Main
www.dynon.aero

 

So it appears that the Dynon D2 can only be used with a new external GPS antenna to function. I'm confused why a software update can't fix this like all of the other firms are doing. TomTom even emailed me a warning to update the firmware on some extremely old GPS I have from them.

[SpamPilot]

Tech support is being conservative.  The D1 and D2 work just fine on the internal antenna in my Mooneys when mounted high up on the panel so that the GPS antenna, which is off-center at the top of the unit (see picture), can see out the full front windscreen.  I would mount it farther away from that central pillar in the window frame (I've got the newer-style one-piece windwscreens) to minimize the blockage.  The roof blocks quite a lot of sky, of course, so you might want to get the unit on top of the glareshield and further forward.  The internal antenna is pretty much just as sensitive as the external antenna, but whichever antenna you use needs to have a clear shot to as much of the sky as possible.  The external antenna simply allows for flexible placement.

I suggest not using the USB port for charging while operating, unless you can confirm this works well for you.  The DC jack supplies more current and provides some additional protection from voltage transients.  The USB port charging capability is a secondary method mainly intended for non-operational charging outside of the aircraft.

If your battery indicator shows "full" after a long charge with the unit turned off, but you can only get 20 minutes of runtime (or for that matter anything less than 3-4 hours) from it before it dies, then the battery is failing.  Yes, the extreme cold soak may have affected it; heat will also affect lifetime, as will age.  The temperature specifications for the unit represent both actual testing and component ratings, but lithium batteries do eventually go bad.  Various online sources can be found that explain lithium battery longevity and aging effects.  I've lost a couple of cell phone batteries and at least one D1 battery.  That Amazon battery pack may get you back up and running, but FWIW that is not the original battery configuration the D1 and D2 were produced with.  Unless I'm mistaking the pictures, it looks like two 3.7V batteries in parallel, whereas the original configuration was one larger battery.  Paralleling these batteries might not be a great choice for longevity.  If that's literally the configuration your D2 was produced with, it's a design change from earlier models.  It's not necessarily bad, but paralleled small batteries can fail sooner than one larger battery.

Neither the D1 nor the D2 have the ability to field-firmware-upgrade the external antenna (actually a complete receiver, not simply an antenna) nor the internal GPS receiver (though, as Dynon reports, it appears the internal receiver does not need an upgrade).  The GPS receivers were not developed by Dynon.  That the external receiver can't handle the new GPS epoch is a big disappointment, something you'd think the company that developed it would have tested for the benefit of its customers who can't afford multi-million-dollar GPS simulators to test rare but obvious corner cases.

There is no "shell login" for the D1/D2 (there is no shell in the conventional sense).

[tigers2007]

Well I am reporting that the D2 internal antenna DOES NOT work after upgrading the firmware to the latest release. It did work fine ten days ago before I upgraded the firmware.

I sat it 100 feet away from my hangar on the tarmac in full view of a clear sky. After fifteen minutes it had received zero satellites.

Here is a response I just received from Dynon:

“The GPS rollover has only affected two of our devices; the external antenna and the GPS-250. The fix is replacement of the antenna and we have a firmware update for the GPS-250.

There may be additional issues with your D2 that coincided with the GPS rollover. We really cannot separate them from here, once you receive the external antenna try flying/driving with it and see if it improves performance. Please let us know the result.”





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[steingar]

I honestly don't understand purchasing aviation specific handheld equipment in this day and age.  My ADSB in cost 0.3 AMU, I have it hardwired to ship's power.  My iPad coast about the same, and Foreflight costs me 0.08 AMU/year.  With all that I get weather, charts, facility directory, and I can surf porn when I get home.  I just don't get the aviation specific boxes.  Seems like a lot of cost for not a lot of functionality.

[carusoam]

Steingar,   Think about what the D2 needs to do.... compared to any of the other portable equipment in the world....

It is responsible for keeping the sunny side up, when all else has failed... in IMC.

 

Everyone gets to decide on what they are going to use for this level of back-up...

Vacuum failures are expected... and they remove the first AI...

Finding out your TC isn’t up to the task in bumpy IMC... is a crummy way to spend one’s final moments...

TCs have a tendency to wear over time, and not work very well in bumps... they are hard to follow...

The back-up AI is Best constantly powered, and always in place... or it will get left behind, forgotten, before it is really needed...

There will be Nothing like assembling and connecting your instrument panel moments before you need it... 

If you don’t normally fly in IMC... then this kind of back-up may not apply...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI, but trying to share some experience openly...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[tigers2007]

5 hours ago, steingar said:

I honestly don't understand purchasing aviation specific handheld equipment in this day and age. 

I don't disagree but you have to have these gadgets running in order to be useful. I've read many statements here and other forums about how "I have a backup AI on my iPad/iPhone/Android in case the main one takes a dive". This isn't practical unless the device is already mounted properly, powered on, and connected to the AHRS source. Now I've see folks who have Velcro'd their iPhone to the panel with the AI displayed. Would you trust your life with an old iPhone over a specifically designed and supported aviation device?

[steingar]

12 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

I don't disagree but you have to have these gadgets running in order to be useful. I've read many statements here and other forums about how "I have a backup AI on my iPad/iPhone/Android in case the main one takes a dive". This isn't practical unless the device is already mounted properly, powered on, and connected to the AHRS source. Now I've see folks who have Velcro'd their iPhone to the panel with the AI displayed. Would you trust your life with an old iPhone over a specifically designed and supported aviation device?

I dunno, I've had the iPad overheat on a couple occasions.  I maintain my course (backed up by something in the panel, always) and get the iPad out of the sun.  When it cools down I turn t back on and go on my merry.  And yes, I have it all back eponym phone.  You can never have too much redundancy.

Now if your aviation specific widget fails (they do) you have nothing.

[Andy95W]

On 5/9/2019 at 8:52 PM, tigers2007 said:

I don't disagree but you have to have these gadgets running in order to be useful. I've read many statements here and other forums about how "I have a backup AI on my iPad/iPhone/Android in case the main one takes a dive". This isn't practical unless the device is already mounted properly, powered on, and connected to the AHRS source. Now I've see folks who have Velcro'd their iPhone to the panel with the AI displayed. Would you trust your life with an old iPhone over a specifically designed and supported aviation device?

I'm in agreement with my Michigan brother.  A dedicated aviation portable is a very reliable and viable addition to an airplane.

My old Garmin Aera has not failed me yet, has never overheated, and has more capability than I know how to use.  In addition, I have it hard wired to my GDL-39 so it displays traffic and weather right on my yoke.  I have it plumbed into my audio system, so it tells me things like, "Caution! Obstacle!" and "Traffic! Traffic!" in my headset.  With Garmin's Target Trend, it even shows me the direction that the other traffic is moving.  All in a package that cost less than 1 amu, has a display larger than than a 430W, and is mounted right in my field of vision.  For IFR, it is an astonishingly reliable and effective tool for situational awareness.  

I fly an Airbus at work and can honestly say that my 59 year old Mooney rivals all the fancy 'widgets' in the Airbus.  For less than 1 amu!

[tigers2007]

I always got a good chuckle seeing a 396/496 on the glare shield of a multi-million dollar bizjet. When I inquired why they would always say the same thing - “It always works” and “better situational awareness”.




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[wishboneash]

On 5/4/2019 at 10:08 AM, tigers2007 said:

Anyone try to upgrade the firmware on their D2 and have it go crazy? I sent them in inquiry but I'm not expecting much in response besides paying $300 for a flat-rate repair. Also my battery only lasts about 20 minutes (far from the four hours advertised when it was new). I'm confident the Lithium Ion battery took a crap when it was subject to -30F temperatures.  I'm going to try reflashing it today and seeing if that fixes it.

It'll work fine for a few minutes and then it'll look like I'm in a deep dive (see photo).

 

I had no end of charging problems after a couple of years of decent performance with my D2. They exchanged mine at no cost, but the second one failed within months. It would lose lock even with external antenna. Eventually, I returned the second D2 unit as well and upgraded to the D3 and have been happy with it since. So far so good.

[tigers2007]

Did you return it directly to Dynon for an upgrade to the D3? They have a trade in program?


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[wishboneash]

24 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Did you return it directly to Dynon for an upgrade to the D3? They have a trade in program?


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Yes, I returned to Dynon and they gave me a somewhat discounted price for the D3. After all the trouble with the D2 I didn't think it was worth going with a repaired discounted unit and they realized that as well.

[tigers2007]

I forgot to update my issue:

Dynon sent me a replacement external GPS antenna (I had to send them the old one back). Note that the updated replacement antenna has the same part number as the old one. I just laid the antenna up at the edge of the glass behind the D2 display and I can’t see at all.
The device connects to the satellites faster than ever now. Thank you Dynon!



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[tigers2007]

Update #2:  The replacement antenna is continuing to work excellent. The D2 will not acquire a GPS signal without the new antenna. Dynon will replace the legacy external GPS antenna with an updated version if you contact their support. Also, my battery issue seems to have been resolved by just using a paperclip and pressing the reset button on the side. Recently it would only work for about three minutes. After resetting it and charging it, I ran a stopwatch and it ran over 1 hour 20 minutes before I stopped the test. I guess I'll try an endurance test again while flying. I did order a replacement Chinese LiPo battery and will just keep it on hand if this battery dies. It is 3.7v 4000mah and was about $11. I'll post more specs and post photos when that day comes.

I have to add one more thing, the Dynon tech support stated that it is perfectly fine to charge/power the device via the USB plug. The coax power jack is also 5V only. 

[Baker Avionics]

On 5/9/2019 at 1:47 PM, carusoam said:

Steingar,   Think about what the D2 needs to do.... compared to any of the other portable equipment in the world....

It is responsible for keeping the sunny side up, when all else has failed... in IMC.

 

Everyone gets to decide on what they are going to use for this level of back-up...

Vacuum failures are expected... and they remove the first AI...

Finding out your TC isn’t up to the task in bumpy IMC... is a crummy way to spend one’s final moments...

TCs have a tendency to wear over time, and not work very well in bumps... they are hard to follow...

The back-up AI is Best constantly powered, and always in place... or it will get left behind, forgotten, before it is really needed...

There will be Nothing like assembling and connecting your instrument panel moments before you need it... 

If you don’t normally fly in IMC... then this kind of back-up may not apply...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI, but trying to share some experience openly...

Best regards,

-a-

 

On that last post we were discussing about "Brand X and Brand Y", this thread is the EXACT reason I said what I said, my friend.  Just a side note.  I hope you know what I am referring to.  LOL

[carusoam]

I’m with you Greg...

And better understanding where you are coming from. 

Best regards,

-a-