Cody Stallings Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) I received the final components of my Cascade system today. Topping off my 24cf bottle at my shop before loading it all up an going to the hanger. The filling with the Portable was very fast an very warm(not hot), everything went as I have been told it should go, taking only a couple minutes to bring it up 500psi. After getting my operation setup in the Hanger, I went ahead an tapped into the fill port of my 86 M20K. The onboard bottle had about 300psi in it when I started, only took it to 1800psi because the noises (whistling) sorta spooked me when thinking of the pressures being transferred. BUT this process took 30 minutes, Is that normal? I have been told by a fairly reputable Shop that my system must have a restrictor in it rendering it “FBO proof”. The bottle barely got warm during filling. No matter how much pressure I introduced, it really didn’t change how quickly(sound) it filled the bottle. Talking to a fellow M20K driver with a similar plane(only a lot newer, an nicer) said his system would top-off fairly fast compared to mine at 30min. The time it takes really doesn’t bother me at all, But if I have a problem with my system then I wanna get it fixed. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Edited May 3, 2019 by Cody Stallings Fat Fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim F Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 Hi Cody, I am going by memory so others here might need to back this up. I think you have the same 115cuft aluminum/Kevlar bottle that I have. Yes there is a restrictor to slow the pressure change and keep the heat build up to a minimum. The whistle is the restrictor and you can quite the whistle a bit by lowering the deltaP. Enjoy going high jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 Good to ask lots of questions... +1 Cody! That much Pressure is pretty powerful... Any O2 leakage can cause some things to burn when they normally wouldn’t... Allow some time to check for leaks... Read up on oils, greases, chapstick, etc... in an O2 environment... it doesn’t take much heat to auto-catalyze a flame... PP thoughts only, not a pyro guy... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Stallings Posted May 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 38 minutes ago, Jim F said: Hi Cody, I am going by memory so others here might need to back this up. I think you have the same 115cuft aluminum/Kevlar bottle that I have. Yes there is a restrictor to slow the pressure change and keep the heat build up to a minimum. The whistle is the restrictor and you can quite the whistle a bit by lowering the deltaP. Enjoy going high jim Not sure how big my bottle is, been told 77cf an 115cf. I know 77 is in the P/N for it. It’s green an looks to be wrapped in some type of mesh. Glade you responded with your experience with this type of system. It has definitely had me scratching my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Stallings Posted May 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 25 minutes ago, carusoam said: Good to ask lots of questions... +1 Cody! That much Pressure is pretty powerful... Any O2 leakage can cause some things to burn when they normally wouldn’t... Allow some time to check for leaks... Read up on oils, greases, chapstick, etc... in an O2 environment... it doesn’t take much heat to auto-catalyze a flame... PP thoughts only, not a pyro guy... Best regards, -a- Thanks for the Tips Anthony. I have been reading everything O2 for weeks now building up to this moment. But many years ago during my High School years I worked in a welding shop in the summers. The owner had witnessed the business end of O2+Oil in some of his early years in the trade. Said it was very unexpected an very vicious. Everyone was well educated in the Safety when working with it. So in his shop, tools that were used with any of the Compressed Cylinders were to stay in those areas to be used ONLY for those tasks. P.S. I was not a welder. Not even a welders Bitch. I swept the floors, Picked up around the shop, re-Stocked welding Rods, Ect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 30 min is probably twice as long as it takes me cascading between a couple 220 cf tanks into my 115cf tank. The portal just has a high pressure valve much like on a shock strut- at least I am not aware of a restrictor beyond the valve - but it does whistle. You can call the folks at https://www.c-l-aero.com/ to verify and tell them you have a Scott O2 portal on a Mooney. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful_Charlie Posted May 3, 2019 Report Share Posted May 3, 2019 The restrictor is in the fill port, and the part number denotes what cylinder it is calibrated for. That said, 30 mins does sound a bit slow, but then I very rarely let mine get that low so can't be sure. As for 77 vs 115 - just look up the cylinder size - there is a substantial difference. Few Mooney related Oxygen data sheets attached in case you don't have them Oxygen.zip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 I was the one @Cody Stallings has been taking to about my experience with the filling of O2. We fill slow and always from the low bottle first. I would say the whole process takes 30 mins. I share the same O2 setup with a hanger buddy that also owns a 252. I would say the “filling” parts only takes 10 minutes between the two source bottles. I have seen and heard what Cody is experiencing and it seems to slow to me. His bottle takes 45min to fill and has a very high pitch whistle sounds where mine has more of a raspy rattle air sounds when going in. Do all these setups have a restriction valve going in? Its almost like his fill (one way) valve is not opening all the way on filling. As soon as I get my plane back from Avionics we are going to compare and contrast fill-ups to see where the problem exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Note: I have the 115 Kevlar tank; it was just re-cert. at annual. I think @Cody does, too, in his plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 The restrictor is in the fill port, and the part number denotes what cylinder it is calibrated for. That said, 30 mins does sound a bit slow, but then I very rarely let mine get that low so can't be sure. As for 77 vs 115 - just look up the cylinder size - there is a substantial difference. Few Mooney related Oxygen data sheets attached in case you don't have themOxygen.zip Interesting, I had not seen the different dash numbers on the portal corresponding to different tank sizes. The diagrams don't give parts breakdowns - just assembly specs. I do expect what you refer too as a restrictor is just a different sized one way valve in the portal. I haven't checked the Mooney IPC but wonder if Mooney spec's different ones for the two tank sizes they used? If so, that's a definite possibility that could be researched via the log books to see if the plane was born with the smaller tank size. In which case the air valve inside the valve can be replaced.But speaking of valves, there is also one that would have the same "restricting" properties at the inlet to the regulator. Plus this copper connection is protected by an -06 o-ring. A piece of pinched or ruptured o-ring seems like a good possibility for restricting the line. This connection is much more accessible that the O2 port to.Lastly, I would also inspect the 1/8" copper tubing between the tank and portal to make sure no kinks are pinching off the line.If the portal valve is suspect, the O2 tank will most likely need to come out to give access to the 4-40 nuts on the backside of the portal.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 BTW, here is a picture of the o-ring that needs to be replaced anytime the HP line is re-connected to the regulator. You'll note how deformed the old one is shown next to the new one which is why I pointed out above that perhaps a piece of old o-ring is causing additional restriction. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Bryan said: where mine has more of a raspy rattle air sounds when going in. Do all these setups have a restriction valve going in? That sound is the inlet valve bouncing on its seat. It will sooner or later ruin the valve. If my memory works, it costs about .3 AMU. Plus installation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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