Flap sequence going missed

[NJMac]

I did 6 practice approaches yesterday 5 of them missed.

 

A couple times I noticed I was close to 120 indicated before I brought my flaps up. My white arc tops at 100.

 

Made me wonder if my missed process is off. I had been bringing in the gear, adding power, raising the nose, opening the flap valve, retrim as needed. Do I need to move the flap sequence closer to the start?

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

 

[Hank]

I always add power first. When I verify positive rate, then raise gear and flaps. But my white arc goes to 125 mph. 

Someone just started a thread about going missed and raising hydraulic flaps, but mine being electric I didn't pay close attention.

Hah! Found it. Too long to read now, gotta go to work.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hank

[Shadrach]

55 minutes ago, NJMac said:

 

I did 6 practice approaches yesterday 5 of them missed.

 

A couple times I noticed I was close to 120 indicated before I brought my flaps up. My white arc tops at 100.

 

Made me wonder if my missed process is off. I had been bringing in the gear, adding power, raising the nose, opening the flap valve, retrim as needed. Do I need to move the flap sequence closer to the start?

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Were talking instrument approaches correct? What flap configuration do you use for approach? The plane won’t fall out of the sky if you add power, raise flaps, raise gear. The best configuration for approaches in my opinion gear and take off flaps. A missed is performed like a take off, If the landing is assured you can always add more flaps. 

[NJMac]

Were talking instrument approaches correct? What flap configuration do you use for approach? The plane won’t fall out of the sky if you add power, raise flaps, raise gear. The best configuration for approaches in my opinion gear and take off flaps. A missed is performed like a take off, If the landing is assured you can always add more flaps. 

I had been dropping gear and adding full flaps at or just before FAF. Flies a perfect stabilized approach at 100 indicated that way. Havnt considered half flaps tbh.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

I do no-flap instrument approaches 90% of the time and would not even consider anything greater than approach flaps.

Adding landing flaps when breaking out on final is a no-brainer to me. Presolo student pilots can do that. Having to retract final landing flaps as part of the workload of a real missed approach strikes me as an unnecessary extra task.

No flaps makes the "flaps sequence" in the missed irrelevant. Approach flaps allows retraction at leisure. 

Of course, my bias has a source. I did my instrument training in a 172. Try as he might, my CFI just couldn't get me to use approach flaps, and that stuck with me in the 30 or so singles I've flown, with only a few exceptions. 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by midlifeflyer

[Marauder]

I had been dropping gear and adding full flaps at or just before FAF. Flies a perfect stabilized approach at 100 indicated that way. Havnt considered half flaps tbh. 
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
 
 

Ah, the challenges of vintage Mooneys... Keeping the plane within VLo is challenging. I find adding approach flaps and setting power around 16/2400 as I am beginning an approach helps stabilize the plane at 100 KIAS. This keeps me 4 knots below VLo. Once at the FAF, I will drop the gear and maybe reduce power 1” to maintain 500 FPM. Full flaps come in when I break out and intend to land.

On the missed, it’s power up, pitch up, gear and then flaps and missed approach checklist items (boost pump off, cowl flaps open, communicate, etc.). It sounds to me that the easiest fix is either to slow down a little on the approach or pitch up more on the missed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Hank]

On approach, I have Takeoff flaps down and drop gear at FAF / Intercept to initiate descent. More flaps are added only if needed to land at my desired spot. For missed, power up, verify positive rate, gear up for drag reduction then flaps up.

Most of my landings are between Takeoff and Landing flaps, usually closer to the Takeoff setting. 

[Bob - S50]

I noticed you said the top of the white arc is 100 and you fly final at 100.  That does not sound like a good idea to me.  A small gust of wind and you've exceeded an aircraft limitation.  I don't know if you are talking Knots or MPH.  But I would either fly no flaps at the top of the white arc or something slower (80?) with flaps.  I don't apply full flaps until I have the runway in sight and certainly not sooner than about a 2 mile final.

For my missed approach it is:

Cowl flaps open (they are normally closed for my approaches), mixture full rich (I normally leave it set at cruise mixture until shutdown), prop full forward (just checking), then...

Throttle full forward/nose up, positive rate, gear up, >80 KIAS, flaps up, 100 KIAS, cowl flaps to trailing, then a normal climb from there.

And of course, trim as needed.  If I had flaps down I usually run the electric trim nose down as I'm retracting flaps.

[NJMac]

I did comment to mt CFII yesterday that one of them where I had full flaps out at FAF fealt like I was "dragging it in". I'll try TO flaps and add more one I "break out".

Seems power, positive rate, gear, flaps seems to be the best sequence.

100 on my white arc is mph. I'll see how she flies at 90 next lesson. Thanks y'all

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Bob - S50]

The only reason I use ANY flaps during the approach is because of the yellow arc on my tachometer.  I like to fly down final (M20J) at about 80 - 90 KIAS.  Doing that with no flaps often requires a power setting that puts my engine right in the heart of that yellow arc.  By using takeoff flaps I can maintain speed with power just barely above the yellow arc.

For my plane, my final approach speed for a no flap landing would be about 75 - 80 KIAS.  Thus my desired 80 - 90 KIAS.

Whatever configuration you decide to use, you'll need to do so on a regular basis so you'll build a habit pattern of setting your final configuration prior to landing.

[Ragsf15e]

+1 on takeoff flaps and 90mph instrument approaches.  Not much reason to change flap settings after I that.  She lands real good with takeoff flaps.  

[carusoam]

Comparing VFR to IFR...

Full flaps are put in for that last turn to final...

They are intended for stall protection... they lower the stall speed a few kias...

The cost of using them... moving the Cl aft, and lots of trim required to balance things...

Expect to be really close in prior to making the decision to deploy full flaps...

If using an ILS down to 200’agl... no need for full flaps, because you have a long runway ahead...

PP thoughts only, my IR is stale, and not a CFI....

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

Amount of flap on approach is a personal preference - there are pros and cons to all.

On go around or missed approach, the goal should be to get the airplane climbing in the takeoff configuration as expeditiously as possible. The sequence would be:

Takeoff power, pitch to Vy attitude, if full flaps then flaps to takeoff, gear up with positive ROC, flaps up. 

It’s common not to pitch up aggressively enough and that’s the cause of excessive airspeed. I prefer takeoff flaps for approach for the lower nose angle and use the mnemonic PUFF: Pitch, Undercarriage, Flaps (wing), Flaps (cowl).

Skip

 

 

[M016576]

At glideslope intercept (or FAF for non-precision) I set half flaps, and 80 knots.  If I break out- full flaps to land.  Go around?  Max power, gear,rotate,  2 positive rates of climb, then flaps.  Shouldn’t be more than 100 kias- still trying to max perform the climb on the missed (unless the procedure specified a hold down on the published miss).

the main reason I like 80kts- is that I can still get my Missile slowed to onspeed from 80kts if I break out at mins.  And I try to always practice how I’ll play.

Edited April 26, 2019 by M016576

[midlifeflyer]

15 hours ago, Bob - S50 said:

The only reason I use ANY flaps during the approach is because of the yellow arc on my tachometer.  I like to fly down final (M20J) at about 80 - 90 KIAS.  Doing that with no flaps often requires a power setting that puts my engine right in the heart of that yellow arc.  By using takeoff flaps I can maintain speed with power just barely above the yellow arc.

 

Yep. That yellow range is definitely a consideration if you want to go slower. I generally fly my APV approaches in a J at 100-105 knots which keeps me out of it, but when other factors make me want to go slower, that's one of the times the approach flaps come down. 

[NJMac]

The cost of using them... moving the Cl aft, and lots of trim required to balance things...

Also a good point. I noticed on one of my go arounds how much forward pressure I had to keep on the yoke to maintain correct attitude. I actually thought to myself if the seat failed and slid back right now we would be going into a departure stall.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[NJMac]

I did a practice ILS 24L coming home this morning into KDAY. Flew it heads up wanting to see how things went with 2 pumps, takeoff flaps. Flew the ILS perfectly at 90mias. Didnt feel like I was dragging it in at all. So glad I asked you all. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[M20F]

On 4/26/2019 at 2:35 AM, M016576 said:

At glideslope intercept (or FAF for non-precision) I set half flaps, and 80 knots.  If I break out- full flaps to land.  Go around?  Max power, gear,rotate,  2 positive rates of climb, then flaps. 

This is it, not sure why it always comes up on the forums.  Sort of common sense. 

[tangogawd]

I found that teaching 3 pumps and 90mph for the final segment worked well. Most of my students were transitioning from draggy 172's, and 2 pumps just didn't offer enough drag and they would surely over speed at times. Missed was simply power up, positive rate, gear up flaps up.