Cessna 152 training and future Mooney

[Joe8120]

Hello, I'm an older student pilot on his 3rd try to get my PPL and I've I had training hours as a late teen and then again in my mid-late 30s.  Money and family commitments prevented me the previous 2 times but I'm determined to get it done this time.  I have about 33 hours currently and would have already solo'd but I'm waiting on my medical from the FAA as they were behind in processing applications last fall and then the shutdown hit further delaying the process (I have a few benign conditions/meds that won't be a problem but the AME stated it had to be reviewed by the FAA).  So its hurry up and wait with the FAA and my medical.  My question is transitioning from the trainer, a Cessna 152, to a Mooney I plan to purchase soon after obtaining my PPL.  I've researched and considered other aircraft but feel like the Mooney will fit how I want to fly and the mission.  I will have about a $50K budget and am looking at a C, E, or F.  Mission will be flying with my spouse and maybe rarely 1 other passenger local trips and to WA and So Cal (we reside in No. Cal) for personal and business.  How would flying in the 152 differ, for better and worse, as compared to a short or long body Mooney?  Since getting back into training, I now remember how a high wing has poor visibility in the pattern (at least for me and I really dislike) and the 152 is blown around quite a bit with crosswinds/landings and in turbulence and I'm hoping this isn't the case with the Mooney models.  I intend to get full transition training in whatever Mooney I purchase prior to doing any flying on my own.  The club I belong to has inexpensive training rates so I get alot of bang for my training buck.  I'm looking for general impressions from forum members regarding the aircraft differences and what I can expect flying the Mooney and my intended plan.  Thanks.

[MBDiagMan]

Training for a PPL in a Cessna trainer to the PPL level and moving to a Mooney shortly thereafter has been done before.  An impressive frequent poster on here, skates97 did just that and I am sure there are others.  Take one step at a time.  Concentrate on the PPL, get it in your hand and then get a little cross country time, and get transition training from a Mooney savvy CFI.

My $0.02,

[rbridges]

  Transition training would be key.  Nothing remarkable about the Mooney, but you do have to be cognizant of your landing speeds.  Also, don't forget to put your gear down!  

[jaylw314]

There've been a couple other recent threads regarding new pilots thinking about moving to Mooney's after PPL training, but the gist of it is that it's certainly doable.  On the other hand, I think it's important to realize your mission now might not be your mission when you're ready to move on to buying a plane, so focus on the PPL first.

[Peter T]

 I trained in a Cessna 152 as a 36-year-old. After my PPL I had a deal to fly that Cessna for another 50 hours. I then put a few hours on a piper archer because I always  liked the low wing. At about 100 hours I was looking for my own airplane. At first I thought that the logical way to go would be with a paper arrow. But with a bit of research I soon realized that a Mooney was the airplane for me. I bought a J and  received 10 hours of dual to satisfy my insurance provider. I put about 600 hours on it in the six years that I owned it. Other things got in the way and I left flying for almost 18  years. I got back into it about three years ago and have now owned another J for almost exactly one year. You should have no problem transitioning to a Mooney. GO FOR IT!

Peter

[RLCarter]

You might even consider getting checked out in a Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee/Warrior, little bigger birds and HP, then move to the Mooney

[Skates97]

30 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

You might even consider getting checked out in a Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee/Warrior, little bigger birds and HP, then move to the Mooney

I did all my PPL in Cherokees and did not have nay issues transitioning to the Mooney. Going from low wing to low wing I think helped.

[ilovecornfields]

I’m making my son learn to fly the 172 before he flies the Mooney and I think every pilot should know how to fly a 172. They’re great airplanes for what they were designed to do.

With a $50k budget and less than 40 hours, I would look at a partnership in a 172 before I started looking at Mooneys.

[gsxrpilot]

Friends don't let friends buy Cessna's, especially 172's. 

With a $50K budget and less than... never mind... an M20C would be perfect for you. 

In all seriousness, I probably wouldn't spend $50K to get an E or F. But that budget will get you a really nice C. 

Of course I've never flown a 172, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. My first airplane was an M20C and it was amazing. My wife and I flew it all over the country and loved every minute of it. Now we fly a K and it's even better.

[RLCarter]

172’s are just slow enough to piss you off, other than that, fun plane to fly

[Hank]

I got my PPL in a 172 [two of them, actually]. Test flew the Mooney just after my student XCs, then had to out it out of my mind and finish up! Five weeks after myncheckride, she was mine. Insurance required 15 hiurs dual, including 5 hours actual or simulated IMC, then I took my wife 350nm over the Appalachians for her father's birthday. It was only the 3rd plane I'd flown, lo these 800-odd hours ago . . .

You should be fine, and you'll really enjoy being able to see the runway while turning toward it!  

Soget that medical, finish that PPL and find yourself a nice M20-C.

[Ross Taylor]

A nice C is well within your budget.  Earlier this year, I'd narrowed our search to 3 viable M20C candidates... all about $45k. I think we would have been happy with any of the three, but then a nice E model popped up. But the C is a great airplane and you can do a lot with it. 

[jonhop]

FWIW, I received my PPL in 2004 while learning to fly a 172. I took an extended hiatus from actual flying in 2006 with 96 hours total time due to life and relegated myself to the simulator realm. When I stopped flying, I could grease the 172 on.

After life settled in 2013, I had the time and found flying again. I attended a rusty pilot seminar and found a CFI knowing that I was going to be shopping for a Mooney, Tiger AA-5B, or 182 in the near future--thank goodness I found a mission that allows flying! I commenced refresher flight training--BFR-- in the Tiger, while including one hour in a 182. I bounced between the Tiger and 172 over the course of the flight review and my landings were the best in the Tiger followed by the 182. My CFI signed off on my BFR and club approval to fly the Tiger first. He wanted another hour checkout--focused on landings--with him to use the club's 172. My touchdowns were a bit inconsistent in the 172. I was surprised given my total experience came from high-wing flying up to that point. 

Shortly after, I found and purchased my J and my landings were smoother than the 172 and on par with the Tiger. I probably could've completed my BFR in a few hours versus five but I chose to evaluate possible future aircraft purchases. I chalk my better landings in the Tiger and Mooney due to greater ground effect. I find that I can use that extra cushion of air to maximize a smooth touchdown to a greater extent than a high-wing. 

The bottom line is, get your PPL in the most cost effective manner. As other M'Spacers have pointed out, you may be able to finish off your PPL in a low wing aircraft i.e. Piper Cherokee/Warrior or might I suggest Tiger / Cheetah. The choice depends on availability and cost but the Tiger is quicker than a 172 and was only slightly more costly in my club. Could be a wash with the Tiger's speed due to time in the aircraft with the prop swinging and a CFI to the right. But I recommend you pick an airplane type and FINISH your PPL! Then focus on transition training. 

May you find success in your flying endeavors,

Jon

Edited April 9, 2019 by jonhop

[Joe8120]

Thank you all for your comments especially from those who have trained in high wing aircraft and/or have come back to flying after an absence. Years ago in my teens I did limited training in 172s at Santa Monica airport in the 80s.  Fun place to fly out of; we would practice maneuvers at altitude by the hills near Malibu.  Unfortunately, I'm unable to train in the 172s as they are typically reserved for transition training for pilots moving up to the 172 after the PPL or if you and your instructor together exceed the gross weight of the 152 which the 2 of us don't. The club does not have any low wing aircraft as an option either except for a twin engine seminole which unfortunately does not get much use.  The rest of the aircraft are exclusively Cessnas.   I have considered the Piper Arrow but prefer the higher speed of the Mooney.  And for those who have commented on the high wing visibility in the pattern, you know my frustration.  Recently after I had finished up a lesson and was walking out of the club office, I heard a somewhat different sound and saw what I knew was a Mooney on the taxiway in front of the office.  I stopped and found myself gawking; what a beautiful airplane and so different than anything else on the ramp at the club.  The pilot I'm sure saw me taking a look and then stopped right in front of where I was standing.  Good man!  After what I had read so far and then seeing it in person; well I knew it was going to be the plane for me.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Joe!

The fun thing about learning to fly a 152/172...

The experience will stay with you forever... sure, it gets rusty... with some good training, it comes back incredibly quickly...

I got my PPL in a C152... CB rules applied... newly married, owned nothing...

got my M20C after 100hrs... CB rules still applied... owned a few things like a pair of kids...

got my IR in a C172... after 1khrs... (the IR can be important for safety, if you have people depending on you)

got a bigger Mooney after the IR, when the kids grew to full size...

Anyone else plan their life around what they do on the weekends...  

Most important....our oldest MSer is a flying octagenarian...

So... if your feeling old, your not alone...

Look up BasicMed... see how it may apply to you...

Look up AOPA... they post the list of all the medications that are OK to fly with... including anticholesterol things...

And... if your state allows you to drive, there is a good chance Basic Med will allow you to fly...

There hasn’t been a time in history like we have today... GA is open!

It takes a fare amount of drive to make this list happen...  YOU have to supply the drive.

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

Your insurance will probably ask you to do 10 hours of dual instruction in your new-to you-mooned.  I'd go for 20 or 30.  In addition to lots more systems in the Mooney, the world goes by a lot faster.  You can't just pull the throttle and drop the thing, Mooneys don't do that.  And you'll have to be way more conscious of your speed on landing, 150's and their brethren are far more forgiving.

That said, the Mooney is an airplane.  It flies like any other airplane, albeit a bit faster and smoother. It isn't made of magic and it doesn't run on pixie dust.

[Kmac]

As was pretty much previously said...  I think you will be surprised how much an airplane (152) flies like an airplane (Mooney).  I also agree that is a decent budget for a C model which would be perfect since you only plan on flying just you and the Mrs.

[Marauder]

We all had to start somewhere. Ah, the memories. I had hair and a black beard...




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[Marauder]

I’m just happy the picture isn’t in black & white.


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[RLCarter]

22 minutes ago, steingar said:

It isn't made of magic and it doesn't run on pixie dust.

Might not be made of Magic, but i think you can still get the STC for the pixie dust

[Skates97]

15 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Friends don't let friends buy Cessna's, especially 172's. 

With a $50K budget and less than... never mind... an M20C would be perfect for you. 

In all seriousness, I probably wouldn't spend $50K to get an E or F. But that budget will get you a really nice C. 

Of course I've never flown a 172, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. My first airplane was an M20C and it was amazing. My wife and I flew it all over the country and loved every minute of it. Now we fly a K and it's even better.

$50k was the top end of my budget and I was looking at C's-F's. I found a nice D that like almost all the rest of them was converted to CS Prop and retract, essentially making it a C. It has been the perfect plane for us getting us all over the southwest and the short bodies are so much fun to fly.

Paul, you aren't missing much. I have exactly 1.9 hours in a 172 flying around Maui, Lanai, and Moloka'i. It got the job done and it was a beautiful flight. But flying a 172 after about 230 hours in the Mooney, I was wishing I was in the Mooney...

[zaitcev]

19 hours ago, Joe8120 said:

How would flying in the 152 differ, for better and worse, as compared to a short or long body Mooney?

I found the transition somewhat challenging because of the need to perform tasks while on lookout for other aircraft. There is not much time to take a breather in a pattern in an M20E. That said, you don't have to go at breakneck pace. Once you're at pattern altitude, pull the power to 15" and cruise at 100 mph on the downwind. That sets you nicely to pull even more for a stabilized approach at Vref. So, the hardest part is the speed management. Also. It is not the hardest part, but the area of greatest concern: verify gear down at specific phases of traffic pattern.

The first man in orbit, Yuri Gagarin, described in his memoir how he transitioned from MiG-15 (subsonic) to MiG-21 (high supersonic, Mach 2). He wrote that he barely had the time to raise the gear and cut the afterburners, when the aircraft reached 300 knots and barreled through 6,000 ft. It's going to be a feeling like that when transitioning to Mooney too.

[tigers2007]

He wrote that he barely had the time to raise the gear and cut the afterburners, when the aircraft reached 300 knots and barreled through 6,000 ft. It's going to be a feeling like that when transitioning to Mooney too.

Everything written here is spot on. I used to own a C-150 and still have more time in a DV-20, C-150, and C-152 than I do in a Mooney. Your first Mooney flight will be very thrilling as everything feels like you are moving at Mach speed versus the C-150. It’s not designed for slow flight like a Cub. Oh and try not to overspeed your flaps on takeoff either.


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[steingar]

The other thing about the Mooney is pattern speeds can be flown like those in a Cessna.  With the gear and flaps hanging out a Mooney is nearly as draggy as a Cessna.  The shot body Mooneys have dirty stall speeds similar to a Cessna.  You don't have to come screaming into the pattern at 120 knots.  You can slow down and handle things the same way as you're used to doing.  The biggest differences are going to be that the Mooney will still speed up too much if you put the nose down (don't want to blow through flap speed) and more speed control on landing.  The Mooney takeoff will be far busier than a 152 takeoff as well.

[Joe8120]

Thanks again for the comments folks; I sure appreciate the insights.  Its been quite a journey for me insofar as flying is concerned.  As I'm sure it has been for all of you, it is a passion that is thoroughly enjoyed.  My only regret is that I didn't get back to instruction sooner.  But finances and family; you know the story.  Then we were empty nesters within this last year and I started thinking about it again.  I took my initial flight last October and Wow, the thrill was back.  My spouse has been quite an encouragement in getting back into and getting the PPL this time despite feeling like I'm back in school and chair flying, study, flight planning, more study, etc.  As far as pattern work, takeoffs, landings, my instructor is a stickler for precision insisting I nail my altitudes, power settings, airspeed, attitude, wind correction, radio calls, etc.  He is pushing me to not settle for being mediocre and that each flight I should be improving (he says, "you should always be thinking and doing items 2-3 steps beyond right now; if you aren't doing something, you're bound to get behind the airplane").  I sort of lucked into getting him as my instructor; the schedule and personalities clicked.  Regarding the medical, I will be moving to Basic Med but my last medical for my last try as a student pilot fell outside of the cutoff date for going with Basic Med now.  So I sit and wait for the FAA.  Meanwhile I continue to fly twice per week and we are knocking out items normally flown post solo plus going back and reviewing items earlier in my training.  I had not progressed as far as doing a cross country in the prior tries.  I did my first one about 3 weeks ago.  I completed the usual nav log.  When I arrived at the airport and we briefed the flight, he said he wanted me to do the first 2 checkpoints via pilotage/dead reckoning.  I decided to shut off the ipad and fly the entire route like that cross referencing with the VORs.  Let me tell you, it was quite a thrill when I had Willows in sight by navigating there by timing and looking out the window for landmarks.  We did the same thing coming back.  I'm not concerned about when I solo or the checkride in terms of hours; I'm just flying and getting better.  I'm a member of AOPA and joined the Pilot Protection Service.  As part of PPS, they call the FAA once per week on my behalf and are monitoring the progress of my medical.  Of course they wanted my medical history going back 10 years + plus another eye test by my eye doc.  Hoping to hear something within the next 4 weeks.