First Annual M20F

[apenney]

My '76 F just got out of the first annual as the new owner and this is my first plane too.  Not a MSC.  The  inspection and basic consumables were 2100.   They found lots of  little things but also some more time consuming things I wasn't expecting.  Being new to this, I just don't have any perspective on what is typical and what seems out of the ordinary.  Here are some highlights: 

1. According to the A&P,  AD 73-21-01a  (lube)  didn't look like it had been done recently, even though it was logged last year.  The plane was flown 130 hrs since the last annual and my understanding is that it is a 100 hr check - correct?  He based it on the appearance/accumulation of "gunk" throughout.  So 6.5 hrs of work later and all is well apparently.  I wasn't there for the inspection so didn't' see it.  Also there was "gunk" clogging the drain holes in the the tail/stinger area which was an additional 2 hours.

2. Left brake caliper leak required disassembly and bleed - 3 hrs

3 Brake lining rivets were installed incorrectly and had to be drilled out and new ones installed - Less than an hour but surprised to  learn that something was installed backwards 

4. Loose tinnerman clips on all the wing, belly, and tail panels - so they squeezed every nut with pliers to tighten....4hrs

5. Leaking fuel sending unit needed new gasket so clean/inspect 1.6hrs.

All in all, the above list  and many little things doubled the cost of the annual.  Though I was expecting findings during the annual that would need to be addressed, I didn't think it would be double the cost worth.  I've heard of some who have had 10K+ annuals though so maybe I should consider myself lucky.   This was the first annual at this facility and I'm guessing that makes a difference as well.

[Bob_Belville]

Of course I haven't seen the plane but it looks like someone may have taken advantage of a blank check owner. 

Was there any conversation, before the fact, about how to proceed with non-airworthiness work without discussion? 

[apenney]

The plane was well cared for by the previous owner.  Was listed here on MS actually   

As far as the annual goes, things weren't presented as options and nothing was ever distinguished as an airworthy vs non-airworthy item.  Sounds like I should have had a discussion along the lines of contact me with a list of non-airworthiness items and we can discuss what I'd like to address.  A learning experience.

[Bob_Belville]

I'd be interested in what @M20Docor @AGL Aviationmight have to say. 

As this is your first plane I do not suppose you had any relationship to the shop. Not a Mooney specific shop? Are they a shop dealing with larger planes? 

[Yetti]

1.  Your plane was built after the AD was issued.   So rod ends were correct from factory.   Now lubing the gear is good 

2.  I could probably do a brake in an hour.    But if they cleaned and painted.

Others seem not too out of line

Edited April 4, 2019 by Yetti

[apenney]

5 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I'd be interested in what @M20Docor @AGL Aviationmight have to say. 

As this is your first plane I do not suppose you had any relationship to the shop. Not a Mooney specific shop? Are they a shop dealing with larger planes? 

No relationship.  Not a MSC.  I believe they were considering trying to become one.  They deal with small planes like ours and some non-jet warbirds. 

[apenney]

13 minutes ago, Yetti said:

1.  Your plane was built after the AD was issued.   So rod ends were correct from factory.   Now lubing the gear is good 

2.  I could probably do a brake in an hour.    But if they cleaned and painted.

Others seem not too out of line

So any plane produced after the effective date (October 1973) doesn't have to do this?

[Marauder]

The “squeezing” of the Tinnermans seems to be gouging to me. They cost between 0.25 and 0.50 each. Even if you had to replace 100 of them, that’s $50. What did four hours of shop rate cost you?


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[apenney]

1 minute ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

In my experience as a long time owner, every time a new shop/IA annuals a plane for the first time they are going to find things of this nature that they think need to be accomplished that the previous shop either didn’t or missed.  None of this sounds too terribly bad to me and especially if the shop doesn’t work on a lot of Mooneys and even more so if this was a hand-over-the-keys-and-call-me-when-it-is-done sort of annual, which I avoid like the plague because you are just along for the ride and have little or no recourse after the fact if you don’t like the way something was done.  Next year will almost certainly be better.  Both you and the shop, if you decide to use them again, will know more about and have developed more of a comfort level with the mechanical condition of the plane.

If I remember correctly that appeared to be and probably is a really cherry of an F you have there.  Enjoy!

Jim 

 

Yeah, unfortunately, it was a hand over the keys situation. Was out of town for work the entire time and it coincided with the time the annual was due.  I'll try to time it better next year so that I am around.  Plus, I'd really like to see the plane when its innards are uncovered so that I have a better familiarity with it.

[apenney]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

The “squeezing” of the Tinnermans seems to be gouging to me. They cost between 0.25 and 0.50 each. Even if you had to replace 100 of them, that’s $50. What did four hours of shop rate cost you?


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$87/hr

[Ragsf15e]

Honestly, that’s pretty darn good for a new shop, first annual and the shop rate is very competitive.  

Some may go better in the future.  Some may go much worse.  If you go with the same shop, he’ll be less likely to find things installed wrong next time.

[carusoam]

First annuals are a learning experience...

Second annuals you come prepared with bags of of SS hardware, tinnermans, and a couple of 1/4 turn fasteners.... an electric screw driver with a variable clutch, ziplock bags, and labels for everything... and appropriate clothing for being on a concrete floor in the middle of winter.... and you learn to shift the annual by a month each year...

Third annual, you have a plan to swap out things you saw and didn’t like in the second annual....like old hoses.... the mission is  to stay ahead of the mechanic while you remove, and clean, and replace panels...

By the time you get to the fourth annual, you have fully researched how the flaps are supposed to work, and how not to lose the tiny ball bearings... you go in with a plan of making things work like new...

At the 10th annual... you are pleasantly surprised that you know how all this stuff works... but, a bit miffed by the stuff you are replacing a second time... the hours on the airframe and engine have added up... a question arises....  is this going to be my forever plane?

Time flys by at Mooney speeds...

Call it a successful annual... start collecting ideas and parts for the next one....

hmmmm.... forever plane....?

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

A typical 100 hour/ annual inspection would be in the order of 24 hours of labour plus snags. If you paid $2100 including consumables of say $100, they did the inspection and snags for $2000 or 23 hours.  It seems to me that they may have under charged you.

The snag that does seem out of line is Tinnerman nut squeezing, but that may be a record keeping issue more than anything.  

Compared to the many sad stories of Owner asssisted annuals which seem to go on for weeks I think you did OK by comparison.

Clarence

[FloridaMan]

Get some Apex screwdriver bits for aviation (better fit for screws, less chance of damaging a screw) and one of these. Absolutely the best tool for hand removal of screws that are above you:

https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-948025-Pieces-T-Handle-Driver/dp/B00QB80UH8 

[steingar]

Actually sounds pretty good to me.  Lots to inspect on a Mooney, and lots of it is really tight.  the Tinnerman thing seems a bit specious, but I still wouldn't complain.  First annuals can be really bad, far worse than that.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, FloridaMan said:

Get some Apex screwdriver bits for aviation (better fit for screws, less chance of damaging a screw) and one of these. Absolutely the best tool for hand removal of screws that are above you:

https://www.amazon.com/CRAFTSMAN-948025-Pieces-T-Handle-Driver/dp/B00QB80UH8 

You gotta try this one. I'm pretty happy with the one I bought.

https://www.amazon.com/Dewalt-DCF682N1A-Lith-ion-Gyroscopic-Screwdriver/dp/B00NO7MHXO/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3QY0VY2Y6ETQP&keywords=dewalt+gyroscopic+screwdriver&qid=1554387543&s=hi&sprefix=dewalt+gyroscopic+screwdriver%2Ctools%2C202&sr=1-5

[MikeOH]

Money wise, I think you did ok.  My first annual on my F was at a MSC (Top Gun) and the basic inspection was $2400. I authorized about $2,000 of repairs (all the airworthiness ones, obviously, and a few of the others).

However, I think the shop did you a disservice by NOT providing you a breakdown of airworty/non-airworthy items BEFORE proceeding to spend your money!

Top Gun was great in providing a very detailed list and not proceeding until we had discussed, and I approved the repair work.

[apenney]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  It’s good to know that I’ll be better prepared next year.  Overall, I’m satisfied and will blame myself for not being more informed about how things typically work during an annual.  I guess this is one more example of why learning is a lifelong process!

[jaylw314]

I make a working aircraft logbook, which is a binder with copies of all the logbooks and STC/337's along with some summary info (like AD compliance and a list of serial numbers for various engine and airframe parts).  On the front page of the binder, I put in big bold text "NO REPAIRS OR PURCHASES ARE AUTHORIZED UNTIL APPROVED BY OWNER" along with my various contact info, and I keep this in the plane.  I would also tell the shop this when I speak with them, but this way, there are no excuses if the message does not get passed on.

I had to remind my regular IA about this a couple times the first year, but he's been excellent about this since and I'd be inclined to give him some leeway on little things nowadays.  If I had to use a new IA or was AOG somewhere, I would not give any exceptions, even for Tinnerman nuts. 

[steingar]

I can't ever recall mechanics fixing something without informing me.

[MIm20c]

38 minutes ago, apenney said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  It’s good to know that I’ll be better prepared next year.  Overall, I’m satisfied and will blame myself for not being more informed about how things typically work during an annual.  I guess this is one more example of why learning is a lifelong process!

I believe that a shop with liability insurance, hangar rent, etc giving a $1k base annual on a non owner assisted complex aircraft is very low.  

It sounds like they spent a lot of time cleaning and properly lubing the aircraft which is very important. You will be a smarter owner going forward but please don’t think you will have $1k non assisted annuals going forward on a 50 year old plane. 

[apenney]

53 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I believe that a shop with liability insurance, hangar rent, etc giving a $1k base annual on a non owner assisted complex aircraft is very low.  

It sounds like they spent a lot of time cleaning and properly lubing the aircraft which is very important. You will be a smarter owner going forward but please don’t think you will have $1k non assisted annuals going forward on a 50 year old plane. 

It was $2100 non-assisted but yeah I appreciate that use and age will add to my costs.  Not that it is relevant here but technically the plane is 43 years old 

[MIm20c]

4 minutes ago, apenney said:

It was $2100 non-assisted but yeah I appreciate that use and age will add to my costs.  Not that it is relevant here but technically the plane is 43 years old 

My mistake, I thought the additions doubled the cost to 2100. We’ve used MSC for annuals 10 times in the past 20 years. My educated guess is an average of $5.5k per annual over that time period. 

[apenney]

5 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

My mistake, I thought the additions doubled the cost to 2100. We’ve used MSC for annuals 10 times in the past 20 years. My educated guess is an average of $5.5k per annual over that time period. 

Thanks.

[Yetti]

20 hours ago, apenney said:

So any plane produced after the effective date (October 1973) doesn't have to do this?

You should read the AD to see if your serial number is covered by it.   Generally earlier ADs are covered at the factory.