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Test flight in/near St. Lous?


FlyinGoon

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Hi all.  

This is actually my first post here and I apologize if this is against the rules or the wrong place. I'm a low-time PPL at 70 hours, but will be back in the air on the regular in a week or two (my access to a plane went away for quite a while).  I'm in a position where I can purchase a plane in the next couple months and I'm trying to figure out what that plane should be. Looking at pictures, YouTube, and specs only does so much...I need to FEEL it.

I've only recently decided on a 4 vs 2 seat plane, so my list is a "vintage" Mooney C, E, or F -OR- Grumman Tiger.

How might I locate someone to take me for a quick spin in a C/E/F model near St. Louis?

Btw. If it matters, most of my time is in a Diamond DA-20 with the remainder in a C172 and Piper Archer.

Appreciate any advice you all can give me.

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Congrats on your first post FG!

You have come to the right place...

Mooneys are built for every type of pilot...

Around here... we have a few types.  We’ve got...

  • Fast.
  • Efficient.
  • Safe.

You can get that in one Mooney, or all Mooneys...

Need some guidance on what fits your mission?

Best regards,

-a-

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9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Congrats on your first post FG!

You have come to the right place...

Mooneys are built for every type of pilot...

Around here... we have a few types.  We’ve got...

  • Fast.
  • Efficient.
  • Safe.

You can get that in one Mooney, or all Mooneys...

Need some guidance on what fits your mission?

Best regards,

-a-

Actually, yes, I'll take some free advice any day!

Most flights would realistically be me and 1 other person and possibly 2 dogs within 300 miles. I would plan on maybe 4 couples trips a year.  We are also feeling a little landlocked here in STL, so we were thinking it would be great to be able to take unplanned trips to the beach (basically panhandle of FL). I think this latter trip would run about 4 hours in a vintage so we may have to take a bio break.

We are a quick hop from Gaston's and it's a bucket list item for me to fly in there, so to be able to land on Gaston's-grade turf is important.

I do plan to get my instrument rating in this plane and I also place a high value on some minimal level of avionics (moving map, AP w/ alt hold). Ultimately I would plan for a step up in plane in a few years so I can't justify a ton of upgrades after purchase.

I'm 5'9" so if anything, maybe a little on the short-side for a Mooney from what I've read. My primary passenger is 5'3". Perhaps this would make backseat bearable for passengers in a short body?

At this time, I have no complex time or rating. I understand it shouldn't be a major obstacle to get that, but is of some importance obviously.

Budget.  It's sort of increasing every week, but let's start at $60k.  If I needed to go to $75k, I could manage that too but I'd need to justify it.  I don't really desire to go any higher though I could by stretching out the time-frame and justification.  

Shoot!

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38 minutes ago, FlyinGoon said:

Actually, yes, I'll take some free advice any day!

Most flights would realistically be me and 1 other person and possibly 2 dogs within 300 miles. I would plan on maybe 4 couples trips a year.  We are also feeling a little landlocked here in STL, so we were thinking it would be great to be able to take unplanned trips to the beach (basically panhandle of FL). I think this latter trip would run about 4 hours in a vintage so we may have to take a bio break.

We are a quick hop from Gaston's and it's a bucket list item for me to fly in there, so to be able to land on Gaston's-grade turf is important.

I do plan to get my instrument rating in this plane and I also place a high value on some minimal level of avionics (moving map, AP w/ alt hold). Ultimately I would plan for a step up in plane in a few years so I can't justify a ton of upgrades after purchase.

I'm 5'9" so if anything, maybe a little on the short-side for a Mooney from what I've read. My primary passenger is 5'3". Perhaps this would make backseat bearable for passengers in a short body?

At this time, I have no complex time or rating. I understand it shouldn't be a major obstacle to get that, but is of some importance obviously.

Budget.  It's sort of increasing every week, but let's start at $60k.  If I needed to go to $75k, I could manage that too but I'd need to justify it.  I don't really desire to go any higher though I could by stretching out the time-frame and justification.  

Shoot!

With your budget, you could find a really nice equipped pre-J or a J that may need some TLC. The challenge will be finding a plane that has what you want in it (avionics) and in a healthy condition. If you are already planning for the next plane, I would make a list of the "needs", "wants" and "nice to have" in this plane and begin the search. If you think you will be moving up within a short period of time, it might make more sense to hold off on purchasing until you can buy the longer term plane. The issue with any plane purchase is that the acquisition cost is the easy part, it is the $3k here or the $1k there that add up. You could easily add $10k in the first year of ownership to address items.

I'm a 28 year owner of the same F model. After 21 years of flying behind an all steam gauge plane, I came to a decision point when the last of my routine destinations dropped their VOR approach. I had to make the decision to upgrade the avionics to finally move to GPS or sell and find a plane that was better equipped and in good shape. I started to look and what I found was a lot of needy planes and this included later model Js and early Ovations. To gain roughly 20 knots of TAS, I was going to fork out a lot more money to get someone else's plane up to my standards and along the way also still do upgrades to meet my wants (I wanted to move to a glass panel).

In my opinion, the break point for me to move up would be a significant speed increase and possibly altitude. Jumping from 152 KTAS F to move to a 160 KTAS J model doesn't make a lot of sense. Once you get up to the 175+ KTAS range, then speed starts to become a factor. To put this in perspective, my F can do a 422 nm flight (no winds) in 2+51. Compare that to:

160 KTAS = 2+44 (J Model)

180 KTAS = 2+29 (Ovation)

200 KTAS = 2+17 (Bravo)

That equates to a 34 minute difference. The fuel burn then also becomes a factor. Where the turbos have an advantage is getting up high to take advantage of favorable tailwinds and of course to cross higher terrain. Some wiseguy JetProp guy I know says "speed costs money".

That said here is the track log of a buddy's J. Flying 795 miles in 3+41 with a nice tailwind at 17,000

1482844260_MooneyTrack.thumb.JPG.9e89da3494de3e1b046739f4b292b0c8.JPG

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4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

With your budget, you could find a really nice equipped pre-J or a J that may need some TLC. The challenge will be finding a plane that has what you want in it (avionics) and in a healthy condition. If you are already planning for the next plane, I would make a list of the "needs", "wants" and "nice to have" in this plane and begin the search. If you think you will be moving up within a short period of time, it might make more sense to hold off on purchasing until you can buy the longer term plane. The issue with any plane purchase is that the acquisition cost is the easy part, it is the $3k here or the $1k there that add up. You could easily add $10k in the first year of ownership to address items

I thought about that as well. Knowing me, this would be a trap in never buying a plane. I'll always be looking to upgrade I think.

Realistically, I don't think I'm going to find a J in my budget equipped the way I want. If I do, great, but I think I'd have better luck finding a pre-J with some quality speed mods and a suitable panel. Having flown half my time each with both injected and carbureted planes, I do like having one less thing to worry about with injected versions.

If I were forced to spend $20k extra for 10 knots speed or more comfort/functionality in the cockpit, I'd choose comfort/functionality any day. I'm a flatlander, so altitude is of minimal concern as well.

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55 minutes ago, FlyinGoon said:

I thought about that as well. Knowing me, this would be a trap in never buying a plane. I'll always be looking to upgrade I think.

Realistically, I don't think I'm going to find a J in my budget equipped the way I want. If I do, great, but I think I'd have better luck finding a pre-J with some quality speed mods and a suitable panel. Having flown half my time each with both injected and carbureted planes, I do like having one less thing to worry about with injected versions.

If I were forced to spend $20k extra for 10 knots speed or more comfort/functionality in the cockpit, I'd choose comfort/functionality any day. I'm a flatlander, so altitude is of minimal concern as well.

Good luck on the search. Hopefully there will be something out there that works out. When you do find a candidate, let us know where it is located. We may already know the plane.

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I wouldn't worry about which model.  With your mission, 2 most of the time and 4 occasionally, any of the pre-J models would be a good choice.  Look for the best equipped airplane you can find.  Focus on the equipment that will help you to be a better, safer pilot (GPS, ADS-B, Engine Monitor, etc.).

Next up is the low time vs. frequently flown debate.  Everyone wants their 50 year old plane to have 1000 hrs TTAF and have been flown 100 hours for each of the last 10 years.  Good luck finding that unicorn!  In my opinion, it's far more important to find a plane that's been flying regularly than it is to find one with low airframe hours.  Don't buy the low time plane that has been sitting for 20 years unless you have REALLY deep pockets.

Also, knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd ever buy another plane without an engine monitor.  Yes, you can easily put one in and get exactly what you want, but you have no idea how the previous owner ran the plane.  Neither does the previous owner really, and that is the point.  At least with the engine monitor, the PO had the proper information to fly it correctly.  Caveat, if it has a recently overhauled engine, I may let that requirement slide.

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I wouldn't worry about which model.  With your mission, 2 most of the time and 4 occasionally, any of the pre-J models would be a good choice.  Look for the best equipped airplane you can find.  Focus on the equipment that will help you to be a better, safer pilot (GPS, ADS-B, Engine Monitor, etc.).
Next up is the low time vs. frequently flown debate.  Everyone wants their 50 year old plane to have 1000 hrs TTAF and have been flown 100 hours for each of the last 10 years.  Good luck finding that unicorn!  In my opinion, it's far more important to find a plane that's been flying regularly than it is to find one with low airframe hours.  Don't buy the low time plane that has been sitting for 20 years unless you have REALLY deep pockets.
Also, knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd ever buy another plane without an engine monitor.  Yes, you can easily put one in and get exactly what you want, but you have no idea how the previous owner ran the plane.  Neither does the previous owner really, and that is the point.  At least with the engine monitor, the PO had the proper information to fly it correctly.  Caveat, if it has a recently overhauled engine, I may let that requirement slide.

Or if a high time engine and you’ve priced it as a runout, then I would let the EM slide. At overhaul is an excellent time to install an EM.


Tom
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Sorry guys...

Engine monitor from day one...

A stuck/jammed exhaust valve is better to know about in the heat of battle than finding out after you are on the ground...

Just my vote... (doesn’t happen very often...) I think my M20C and Maggie 1...

 

Of course... no money in the budget for it? I went another decade without one.  CB by need, not by choice... :)

 

Hey... want to rent a Mooney M20F for a few hours to get a feeling for how it flys, how it fits, all the things it can do..?

There is a couple of flight schools that adevertise... one recently around MS.   Another one in NJ....

 

Building some time, getting your complex, lowering that first year’s insurance?

Then decide if the extra FI & 20 hp are worth the price, or the extra leg room in the back is better... or both.

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

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Welcome aboard.

As others have said any Mooney mode C to J will fit you r mission fine.  By the way you looking at about 3.5 to 4 hours nonstop to Destin or Panama City and depending on how much you lean out the engine and altitude you should have about 1 hour reserves when you get there.  This is being very conservative.  Now if you have 4 adults and bags you may need to leave some fuel behind in St Louis and make a stop along the way for some more.

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16 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Hey... want to rent a Mooney M20F for a few hours to get a feeling for how it flys, how it fits, all the things it can do..?

There is a couple of flight schools that adevertise... one recently around MS.   Another one in NJ....

 

Building some time, getting your complex, lowering that first year’s insurance?

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

Great idea!. I just reached out to a place in Dallas that I think can handle transition and complex.

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I'm at Spirit of St Louis, just inside the west gate by Elite Aviation. I don't have what you're looking for, but happy to talk Mooneys and let you have a look around and go fly if you'd like.

I have the same mission and have hit the beaches in Florida and Alabama with my beloved on a semi-regular basis. Happy to talk about that, too!

Email is the best way to reach me - rickjunkin@yahoo.com.

Cheers,
Rick

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